Great Stuff? GE Silicone? Alternatives??? - Page 2

mhbird · #11 (**permalink**) 06-28-2008, 08:01 AM

Btw, found some 'Great Stuff'! A specialist builders yard had it, here in the UK.

Greenfiend · #12 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 09:31 AM

Hi All, I can tell you from some experience re-sealing aquariums that you want to use GE Silicone I not GE Silicone II as it has "bioseal" which contains a form of arsenic to prevent mildew. I killed several fish in a 135 that I rebuilt with Silicone II before I found out what happened. Also, the solvent in Silicone I is an acid (hence the vinegar smell), and the Silicone II uses an ammonia solvent. As some of this undoubtedly leaves residue after curing I would imagine it would pose a problem too. I haven't used great stuff before, has anyone had any problems with it in cages with sensitive inhabitants? Thanks, Steph

kinger88 · #13 (**permalink**) 08-07-2008, 06:44 PM

If you decide you want some egg crate then have a look on eBay
I'm in the UK too and hand bit of trouble finding it but on eBay it was £6 for a 68x48cm bit of egg crate delivered

Wolfkill · #14 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenfiend

Hi All, I can tell you from some experience re-sealing aquariums that you want to use GE Silicone I not GE Silicone II as it has "bioseal" which contains a form of arsenic to prevent mildew. I killed several fish in a 135 that I rebuilt with Silicone II before I found out what happened. Also, the solvent in Silicone I is an acid (hence the vinegar smell), and the Silicone II uses an ammonia solvent. As some of this undoubtedly leaves residue after curing I would imagine it would pose a problem too. I haven't used great stuff before, has anyone had any problems with it in cages with sensitive inhabitants? Thanks, Steph

Well guys I've been on lots of forums in the past. All of them fish or turtle forums. GE SILICONE is toxic to fish turtles and most likely frogs and toads, Only when in contact with water for long periods of time or constant contact with the things that you are keeping in your tanks like your frogs or toads. Anything but Aquarium silicone will leech toxins in to water tables. You have to watch your rubber liners for ponds too if it's not a EPDM rubber liner your going to have petro chemicals in your water and will slowly kill your animals, the same with solvent based silicones. Sorry last sentence not right. I meant to say mold resistant based silicones.
Mike.Wolfkill

Greenfiend · #15 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 01:59 PM

Not to argue, but I've re-sealed probably in the neighborhood of 20+ tanks with Silicone I and have yet to have a problem (I used to work at a pet shop that customized fish tanks, I.E. drill, re-seal, extractor boxes etc.). Also, all silicones have to have some kind of solvent, this is how they cure (reaction between the solvent, the silicone and humidity. I've discussed this topic at length with someone who had researched silicone for the aerospace industry when it first came out. Silicone I is food safe and therefore is safe.

Wolfkill · #16 (**permalink**) 08-08-2008, 11:56 PM

[quote= I've discussed this topic at length with someone who had researched silicone for the aerospace industry when it first came out. Silicone I is food safe and therefore is safe.[/QUOTE]

I agree to a cretin level. Food safe silicone is more of a pain and needs cleaned and washed more after it first cured and is rated on a water resistant with out the release of arsenic or formaldehyde not compete submerse of it's self for permanent use under water. It is not pure silicone it will break down faster than normal because of the things that are put in it to repel mold break down the silicone its self. If it did seal in the the toxins that repel mold and mildew than it wouldn't repel mold now would it? Making it food safe under specified conditions which are not the same conditions of a animal habitats that deal with consent 100% percent exposure to water dose not make it safe for the type of use that it is being used for. Stop listening to hearsay and go by facts , READ the MSDS sheets on these products. As far as solvents in the silicone they are pushed out to 99% percent in the curing possesses I do agree with you on how the solvents work in the silicone it self to cure it self.
The silicone that you are using will not immediately kill the animals but over time like all carcinogenic materials will do its damage over time.
Also I forgot to state this above but, the silicone will mold because of the break down of the top 1/10th layer of the silicone will have released all of the mold fighting properties in it but, this takes the better part of ten years to happen.
The amount of release of these mold fighting properties is and meets health standard's for human exposure levels not a two ounce frog or a two pound turtle. This was a 20 point question on my OSHA certification test for the UNION. Mind you there were 240 possible point to score on this test.

froggsong · #17 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 05:49 PM

This more technical discussion is EXACTLY what we need to be having, rather than, it's worked for me, so it must be ok. Please give more details, Wolfkill.

Wolfkill · #18 (**permalink**) 08-11-2008, 12:49 AM

I'll get the MSDS sheets on this for you guys, and post them and the FDA regulations on food safe products.
Mike.Wolfkill

Greenfiend · #19 (**permalink**) 08-11-2008, 09:59 AM

wolfkill, I assume you know that the part number on some aquarium sealant tubes is the same as Silicone I, it's just repackaged. I have 2 aquariums right now that are sealed with Silicone I and one is a 75g with puffers (known to be very sensitive). Neither the puffers or the mangroves are in any distress and haven't been for the 3 years they've been in there. The silicone was 3 day's old when it was filled and I haven't had a problem 1 with any life I've put in it. Fact of the matter is, there is more mis-information put on forums by people who have no practical experience. I've kept saltwater reefs in tanks sealed with silicone 1 and my inverts thrived like gangbusters. The person that told me about silicone has been in aerospace electronics industry in an R&D capacity for over 40 years and they don't put anything into space vehicles without extensive research. In another words, get some practical experience before arguing a subject.

Greenfiend · #20 (**permalink**) 08-11-2008, 10:13 AM

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a forensic biologist. He happens to also be a saltwater freak. We're going to run an experiment and squash this once and for all. We're going to take 3 glass slides, put a dab of Silicone I on one, Silicone II on another and Oceanic branded silicone sealant for aquariums on another (for a control). We're then going to soak the slides in individual beakers heated to 80f for a week after the samples have air dryed for a week. My friend is then going to do some toxicology tests on the water to see if anything leeches and to what extent. So, in 2 weeks we should have some scientific basis to go on (much better than bs from forums).