enclosure material and joinery questions

[jgragg]

Hi all,

This is my first post - just found this place a couple days ago. Good stuff here, I'm glad I found you.

So, I'm a "snake guy", strictly vipers. I like the look of the naturalistic terraria/paludaria, and about half the taxa I maintain lend themselves to this approach. Temple vipers, eyelash vipers, bush vipers, etc. - they're very sedentary, need humidity and good ventilation, are much easier to keep hydrated with flowing or falling water, have very low metabolism/waste production, etc etc. Neat critters, and nice to look at too. Perfect for a lovely terrarium. (Yeah, I admit it, I like plants too ,ha ha).

I'm interested in building my own "tanks", or at least 1 to see how the naturalistic route works with my animals. (I currently use several varieties of commercial and custom enclosures). I am strongly attached to front-opening enclosures, in particular bypass/sliding doors in 1/4" thickness (sturdy & easy to lock among other things). I like glass doors because they don't scratch much. I like paired sliding doors because they give very good security, e.g. you can open them just enough to do your business, and often you can open the side farthest from the inhabitant. Hinged doors do not allow this - horizontal hinges have the additional downside of distraction (holding the door open). Distraction is not good in my sub-hobby. Vertical hinges might be OK, but I'm thinking of a tank around 3' tall and wide, 2' deep. A door would weigh quite a bit, putting a lot of torque around the hinges.

(Also, I'm not very interested in e.g., the plywood/epoxy thing - I want to work with transparent materials that are inherently waterproof.)

Finally, after all this explanation that I hope helps inform & refine responses - my points:

1) how might I go about building a clear enclosure with these sliding front doors? The glass track I use for my terrestrial enclosures is made of styrene - I really haven't found a cement that works well for bonding it to other materials (such as those I anticipate using for these new terraria). I have seen articles and threads with photos of glass vivaria with sliding front doors, apparently without plastic track (e.g. on the Black Jungle site) but the doors are always removed or at least not emphasized/portrayed in the images. I can't see how they're built, how they work. Any of you have one of these you could photograph and/or describe? Is the trick on the doors (i.e., rollers)? If so what do they run in???

2) how might I go about using both glass and, say, acrylic sheeting for walls? (If this turns out to be necessary or useful for plumbing - I want to filter the water, outside the enclosure, using false bottom & a canister filter, & return it in a water feature). I've though about using extruded plastic joiners (butyrate, I think is the material, at US Plastic). But how might I seal that? Silicone doesn't stick so well to a lot of plastics, certainly not acrylic. And a general rule of plastic cements is, don't mix your plastics. Is this (glass + acrylic fabrication) a dead-end thought? Am I better off just drilling the glass?

I'm totally open to suggestions, as well. Maybe (probably) I'm overlooking an easier solution?

Many thanks in advance,
Jimi

[swords]

Unfortunately I can't answer any of your questions but I too just joined this place the other day to ask essentially the same question you just posed above, so I'll be watching this post! In the US there just doesn't seem to be any easily accessable large european style vivariums, Exo-Terra makes some (one size up to 24 x 18 x 24) but still not big enough.

BTW that big vivarium on the Black Jungle site was made by Glasscages.com - Home, they don't list that size on their site so it must be a custom job. However, unless you're in their "delivery area" you're pretty much out of luck going through them (they will ship it by truck but at what cost??). I'm out since there's no big Herp shows in Minnesota but being in FL you might be lucky!

[jgragg]

Hi Swords et al.,

I think I'm approaching an answer. Later last night I found a thread on this topic, and a post by (I think) the man at Repti-Racks. He mentioned this stuff (Weld-On #16):
Oceanpro Aquatics - Online Store: Weld-On #16 Acrylic Weld

It looks like it will bond styrene to acrylic and lots of other plastics (wow). So I could pretty easily have my bypass glass doors, but I'd have to use plastic sheeting material. For weight & fragility concerns, I could live with that - I was already leaning that way anyway. It would greatly simplify any future modifications for plumbing, wiring, fans, etc. The weld-on 16 looks like it'll be fine for some bulkheads (depending on their material...). I think many are made of polypropylene; maybe some are PVC. That site above also offers bulkheads and various fittings, BTW. I'm in a pretty small town - we have a Home Depot but not a lot of other options for uncommon or higher-quality items.

Anybody got any ideas for incorporating a framed screen panel into an acrylic or PVC pane? (Like below the door, for fog control.) I've always just used the window repair kits when building wood cages; I suppose I could screw the aluminum frame onto the plastic? I'm just not aware of what other frame options there are...I guess I could just use a strip of perforated acrylic or PVC, which would be a lot stronger.

This vivarium thing has really gotten under my skin...ha ha. I saw some images from a German guy (Thomas Jaeckel) having consistent success breeding temple vipers - and I was hooked on the "aqua-terrarium":
Wagler's viper in captivity

cheers,
Jimi

[swords]

One website I was reading they used an "H" and "U" glass profiles to make a grate under the window to reduce fog here's the link, scroll down and click "Air (Ventillation)" page it's at the bottom:

www.poison-frogs.com, a 2002 website full of information on dart poison frogs, vivaria, plants, together with lots of pictures, films and more. Orchids, bromelia's, mosses, descriptions of dendrobates leucomelas, azureus, pumilio, tinctorius, auratus

Not sure if I need to go to a glass shop to find these or what cos the hardware store guys just look at me like I'm nuts when I ask for stuff.

[jgragg]

Thanks for link - very cool site with more good links. Those Dutch guys really go off. Same with their snakes.

Interesting use of the U to stand the H up off the lower pane. But it looks as though the upper pane (i.e., his door) is a single panel. He calls it a slider but I can't see it assembled anywhere. It seems like there's not enough room in the top of the H for 2 panes sandwiched together (and there's nothing serving as a divider between 2 panes either - I'd think that was a requirement for smooth operation of each door).

Outwater plastics is a place you can get lost. See link to get you in the neighborhood of U's and H's (plastic, stainless, and aluminum). Somewhere in the high 60's pages is "miracle track", the glass track I like (I just go with the styrene, not the metal with wheels for the doors).

Outwater Plastics 2006 Master Catalog - page 60

Alternatively, although it may well provide excessive airflow, one could use perforated sheet material in a small panel (size of a keyboard spacebar???) below the front window/door:
PVC-1 Perforated Sheeting - US Plastic Corporation

Or just drill some holes...in the U/H setup that guy only had a few holes under his door (but I think he had some pretty substantial fans sucking air in through those holes).

cheers,
Jimi

[Rainfrog]

A site that might help is Geothermal Aquaculture Research Foundation Home Page Go to the DIY pages and click on tank building. you can choose size and materials and they will give you a basic cut list supplies and instructions. these are ment for aquariums so some modifications are required but it is pretty simple stuff.