whats a good beginners frog/toad?

[Rainfrog]

OK here I go shooting my mouth off again.

first: all frogs excrete toxins from their skin. many frogs are toxic to each other because of the delicate nature of super absorbent skin.

Second: many people feel it is unethical to cause any animal undue stress, and that mixing caused just this, but then again plenty say we should all be out of a hobby.

I tend to agree with not mixing. as I have been very Vocal (as vocal as one can be in type I supose) about. However, It is up to each individual to make the decision on how they keep their pets. they are pets after all. I advise not to mix because it often leads to heart break. I would try to prevent devastation I have have endured from other keepers.

I have seen your pics Froggsong and while it may not be what I would do Your frogs are beautiful and look healthy and happy.

I fall to pieces when I loose a herp or fish(it is rather pathetic really) and try to minimize my possibility for loss. Every animal is different, every keeper is different. I Have the right to keep my animals how I will, and so do you. Ask me my opinion though and dont argue if its not what you like, I have a right to that to. Opinions and advice can often sound like one person trying tell others what to do(often enough it is) PLease dont take me that way. I just formulate my opinions into the best possible package for debate I can so people can use it or put up their own counterpoint. I have had many good discusions here, some have been a little heated but in the end we all do what we feel works best for us and seldom does an opposite view sway us in the slightest.

Point and counterpoint is good debating. We should all just try not to seem to attack each other or specific opinions. Facts can be disputed, and should be if they are wrong. Opinion is not fact, should not be presented as fact(though facts often are included in opinions), and opinion should not be disputed on disagreed(or agreed) with.

[froggsong]

I totally agree with you Rainfrog. If I had had the money (and know how) when I first began collecting my herps, I likely would have kept them separately. I think I will eventually take the FBT out so that I can get some more and possibly breed them. However, my frogs have been healthy for so long, always active and eating well, and I really think that they are fine together. So, IMO, these frogs specifically could be kept together if the conditions are appropriate. It could possibly also depend on the personality of the frog (which I believe they all have). While I generally would not recommend that someone keep them together, I do like for people to know that I have done it successfully for years. There are lots of people out there who would like to keep a community tank, and there should be some information out there as to what species have been kept together successfully for those that are going to ignore the "do not mix" suggestions and do it anyway. If people that keep mixed tank successfully (I can't stress that word enough) speak up as to how they do it, perhaps we can save others from the heartache of loosing a pet when they don't follow the "better safe than sorry" advice. I also think that people who disagree with it should chime in with the facts as to why they don't agree. Just hollering "NO! No! Don't do it!", like some people do doesn't cut it though, people need to know exactly WHY it shouldn't be done, or some of them are going to do it anyway without knowing what to watch for.

These types of discussions do tend to get very heated, I think it is because both sides feel like they are being told they are wrong. It's hard not to make it seem that way, no matter how polite or diplomatic you try to word your post.

I tend to believe that any species that live together in the wild (and I mean together, not just in the same region) can be housed together in an enclosure that is large enough. I realize that my frogs are all from widely different parts of the world, but to begin with I had only species that were native to the area in which I lived (and the golden, she was actually my first frog), that I caught from an area that was about the same size as the tank I had them in (As in, they were already living in very close proximity to one another). I had a GTF (WC and then released), an Anole, and 3 Squirrel Frogs in the same tank (and the golden). Then I was given the FBT and had no where to put him except the tank with the other guys. I could very possibly have a special frog in my golden, as the GTF and squirrel frogs were/are plenty small enough for her to eat. I am quite sure she snacked on a tiny little frog I caught once, and since then I have been careful not to add anything smaller than the frogs I already have. It is definitely a learning experience to keep a mixed tank, and shouldn't be tackled by anyone not willing to put in the effort to make it right.

I do want to get some more squirrel frogs, or possibly some GTF's to go in with my remaining squirrel frog, and I may get one, possibly two, squirrel frogs while I have everyone in the same tank, since those numbers would match what I had before. If I have to go with GTF's instead, I will wait until I can separate everyone so I don't have to worry about any conflicts with any new frogs. I will likely put the golden into the tank that currently houses my CWD, leave the squirrel frog where he is (with the addition of a couple of GTF's and HOPEFULLY a couple more squirrel frogs), and buy a new tank for some FBT's. This would have to be after I build the permanent enclosure for my CWD though.

So while I can get very defensive about the keeping of mixed tanks, it is because I KNOW it can be done, with few problems, if someone is willing to do what they need to. I also do agree to an extent with those that are against mixing.