Baby tomato frog behavior

[tomatogirl]

Hi everybody. Yesterday I got a CB baby tomato frog (about the size of a quarter). He is adorable, fat and seems to be pretty healthy. I am new to frogs and terrariums (I'm a fishgeek primarily), but fell in love with a tomato I saw months ago and began research on the best way to keep one. I was wondering if his behavior is normal, as that's where I'm a little sketchy, being new and all. First setup info (if you don't care about this then skip the next paragraph):

My little one is in a 20L with a screen top with 3/4 covered with plexi. Plant strip light (old aquarium grow light-- 6500K) and a 75W infrared, and a "medium" zoo med heater underneath. With good misting, the setup stays between 75-79F and 65-80% humidity. The substrate is a mix of peat moss and Eco coconut stuff. He's got an 8X8 baking dish with gravel in the bottom about half filled with water so his little fat butt doesn't drown. I've got live plants-- ferns, mostly-- in pots placed around the tank and the substrate sort of contoured around them. The light was burining some of their leaves and it was a little hot so I clipped it so it sits about 6" above the screen. So there's the lengthy setup description. If anyone sees anything amiss, please let me know!

The behavior: threw in three gut loaded small crickets yesterday-- saw one this morning but never actually saw him eat. When he is awake, he often tries to climb up the glass like he's trying to break out. Is this just him getting used to things, or is it possible something is irritating his skin and he's trying to get away? I'm sorry if this is a silly question, I'm just wary because everything I read about amphibs stresses their delicate skin. Thanks in advance for your help (and patience!).

[Tindomul1of9]

Hi,
I saw some of these last week at the NY reptile Show. They were really nice, but I don't know much about them. I do know that they live Madagascar, in the same area as many Mantella frogs. As far as I know, Mantellas are kept kool, at temps in the low 70's. Though I am no expert. What did your research come up with? What substrate are you keeping him in? I would go with some well draining soil that stays nice and moist but not wet. And nothing too small, more like orchidmix with big chunks of stuff so it doesn't stick to him.
Good luck and hopefully someone around here has more info. If not, we can figure it out together.

[tomatogirl]

Tindomul1of9,
Thanks for the info. My net drags have so far yielded that they need a soft substrate to burrow in, like Pac Mans, and they need it a bit warmer, like 75-80. What confuses me is that some places I've read that the babies need to be kept slightly cooler than that, but other places say nothing.

I've also read that you have to be careful with "chunkier" substrates and small gravel because they can swallow them when they eat get impactions, which is why I picked the peat/coco fiber stuff for him. Don't know how likely that is but it sounds pretty icky. Is there any danger with him getting dirt on him or was that a cosmetic suggestion? He's a little dirty now but he seems fine.

So far he has Frogzilla-ed some dusted crickets. I found him sort of perched in a fern today (he's usually parked in the dirt or under said fern), making me think he was trying to get drier (substrate was pretty wet-- I'm taking it easier on the misting) or closer to the heat lamp above. But he's back down now. Don't know what that's about.

Is UV necessary for these dudes, do you know? That's another area of confusion. Most of the sites that say it's necessary also sell them, making me skeptical...

Thanks for the help.

[Tindomul1of9]

UV is not usually necessary for amphibians. Dusting the food with Vitamin D3 and Calcium is enough. Try getting some moss, or dead leaves(no pesticides) and putting that ontop of the substrate. Dirty frogs eventually get stressed out by it. There is a danger to impaction, so I would leave the substrate you got, and instead put something like moss or dead leaves ontop so the dirt don't stick. As far as temps, my guess, try to keep him as close to 75 as possible, and cooler at night. He/she should be fine that way.

[tomatogirl]

Well, I added some dried moss that I misted first. That freaked him out, so now he's hunkered down in the soil next to a plant. He was absolutely uninterested in eating today. They walked over him, and now one's face down in the pool, Sunset Boulevard-style. He ate a good meal yesterday and the day before, though. I refuse to worry until he won't eat tomorrow. Temp stays around 76. I'll have to play around and see how long I need to leave the lamp off and when it needs to come back on to get the temp to dip. Fish are so much easier-- that whole slow cooling and heating of large water bodies thing.

[Tindomul1of9]

Sorry to hear he freaked out on you. He should be fine later. Leave him alone for a good two days, and hopefully he will be fine.

[Rainfrog]

I was wondering if you use a timer for your heat source? it could realy simplify things to use one. also do you have a drainage layer under your substrate? like gravel, small rocks or exspanded clay pellets? Drainage layers help to maintain a good humidity and keep the soil from getting soggy. this also helps to keep plat roots from rotting due to excess moisture.

[tomatogirl]

First a quick update: this morning I got up and he was still awake and ate a cricket I put in for him (the other 2 are gone now, so I assume he took them out, too). He was also alert and nice and clean from a bath and his new friend the moss (thanks Tindomul!). Seems to be happy and has found a great little burrow spot right up front. Very cute.

I finally got a timer for the medium under-tank heater (because one of the 12" sides of the 20L is a couple inches from a thick outside wall, I also have a red 75W heat bulb) because the water above it was over 80F sometimes! Still fiddling with it to get it where I want it. Should I also put the heat bulb on an timer so that it cools some at night? So far I've been afraid to experiment too much since I'm not awake nights and wouldn't know if it got too low.

And to answer your question, B-R-F, I wish I had a drainage layer but alas, no such luck. After I got him in there I realized that would have probably been wiser. Since he's so new I'm going to try to go a couple more weeks before tearing it all up on him (and me!). The top bit is Eco Earth, and now that I'm taking it easier on the misting, it seems stay pretty moist in there-- 60-70% my hygrometer near the top of the tank says. I have my plants in their pots right now and they have about 1" of peat underneath the pots to help pull drainage, though that's far from perfect. Do you have any suggestions about setting it up when I am able to tear it apart?

Thanks for all your feedback! Frogzilla is pleased to have so many looking out for him

[Tindomul1of9]

How cold does the tank get without a heater? As a rule I don't use heaters for amphibians. Heat is not usually a frog's friend. But you say the heater keeps the tanks at 75-79. My tanks keep those temps with just lights.

[Rainfrog]

I agree with tindo on the heat pad. those tend to make one spot very very hot and add little ambient heat. I use them for my python but dont leave them plugged in all the time. He will actualy stay on the cold side too long just becouse the ground gets so hot where the pad is, just touch the area over the pad after it has been on a while and you can tell right away it might not feel nice. As for a drainage layer: when you are ready just scoop out your substrate and put down some exspanded clay pellets (which are impossible for me to get where Im at! ARGG!) or some gravel/stones the slightly larger ones will be better and you can get a bag of them at the fred meyers garden center or home depot (You got to love Home Depot) for $4 to $6, just wash them real well! Landon has a very good method for this in his thread "29 Gallon journal".