Tiny Dark Brown/Black Beetles???

LadyParvati · #1 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 11:15 PM

Got the new viv set up (55-gallon tank) & snake has been in it for nearly two weeks. Now we're seeing teeny little dark brown or black beetles--when we pick up the snake, they're crawling on him, they crawl on us--about poppy seed sized, so I first thought, "Oh, No! Mites!" But my stepdaughter is visiting; she's a zoo lecturer at Duke U & says they're definitely not mites and definitely beetles but she doesn't know what kind. She did some online research & can't find any beetles that are parasitic on snakes, so I'm not _so_ worried, but still---what are they? are they eating vegetable matter of some sort? Are they dangerous for the snake? Should we try to get rid of them or just leave them alone?

Thanks for any help!

Peter · #2 (**permalink**) 07-25-2008, 11:40 PM

Some specifics may help - what kind of snake it is, where you purchased it, is it wild caught or captive bred, what is the tank setup composed of, how you care for the snake, i.e. what you use for substrate, how you heat the tank, what you feed the snake, etc., may give some clues as to how this problem may occurred.

Any external parasite is not a good thing for a snake or any other herp for that matter and must be removed immediately. You may want to start by allowing the snake to soak in a container of water to see if this will help to remove these beetles.

A thorough cleaning of the tank with good old fashioned soapy hot water with some bleach added for disinfecting purposes. Rinse it well with clear water. All cage furnishings should be cleaned in the same manner. Most importantly make an appointment with a ARAV certified vet for further diagnosis and possible treatment as soon as possible. This would be the very best course of action to take at this point.

Athen · #3 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 12:37 AM

everything peter said is exactly what i would recommend myself.. but id like to also add that if your snake is a BP watch for it to soak.. occasional soaking isnt a problem they like it now and then but if it spends alot of time in its water bowl on its own free will check for mites at your soonest possible opportunity

LadyParvati · #4 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 03:28 AM

Ouch. Sorry for the lack of pertinent info. It is a BP; got it at PetsMart. The unhappy problem is we're talking about a natural vivarium--lots of potting soil, plants, etc. To take apart & bleach everything is going to be a huge task. *sigh* The snake is not spending time soaking--it's staying in its hide all the time--even at night. Not much happening at all. It ate last Sat--two hoppers. We've checked for mites; don't see any or anything else other than the little beetles. I think the beetles came with one of the plants.

sheesh.

LadyParvati · #5 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 03:31 AM

Also, tank has under-tank cobra heat mat in one area, ceramic heat lamp over hide. BP is about 21" long (est).

froggsong · #6 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 04:45 AM

If you are sure it is BEETLES, rather than mites, then I would suggest to either take apart the vive and use just aspen and the hides, or to put the BP in either another tank or a tub, and use the vive for something else (though you would still have to get rid of the beetles). From everything I have been reading since I got my BP, they do better in a specific environment (aspen or whatever you choose for bedding, two hides, and UTH or whatever you choose for heat, and a water dish) than they do in vivaria. Though I certainly prefer a naturalistic environment, what is best for the snake is best for the snake, if you catch my meaning. I have all of my other animals in vivaria, but my snake is in a tank with milled peat moss for substrate (not as good for humidity when dry as it is when kept wet, so I will likely be switching to aspen) two hides, and a water dish (I am currently using a heat lamp for heat, which also is effecting my humidity, but I know that because I use lights for my CWD). I've noticed in the short time I have had my BP that temps make a HUGE difference in whether or not they roam at night. I really think before you take the snake to the vet (stressful and expensive for you, and definitely stressful for the animal), you should change the enclosure. Try that, and if you see any of the bugs on the BP after making the switch, then immediately take the snake to the vet. I think you have been fairly clear that they are beetles, rather than mites, but if you change the cage and they are still on the snake, then you should take it to the vet (as I am sure you will, you seem to care very much about your pet).

Hope I have been helpful at all.

Evilwezal · #7 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 09:45 PM

I used Dry ice last week to kill some little yellow bettles that had infested my Vivarium. It seems to have took care of the problem. Just make sure to take your pets out of course.

LadyParvati · #8 (**permalink**) 07-26-2008, 10:23 PM

Great idea! Thanks--we'll try it tomorrow!

Peter · #9 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyParvati

Ouch. Sorry for the lack of pertinent info. It is a BP; got it at PetsMart. The unhappy problem is we're talking about a natural vivarium--lots of potting soil, plants, etc. To take apart & bleach everything is going to be a huge task. *sigh* The snake is not spending time soaking--it's staying in its hide all the time--even at night. Not much happening at all. It ate last Sat--two hoppers. We've checked for mites; don't see any or anything else other than the little beetles. I think the beetles came with one of the plants.

sheesh.

My money is on the potting soil and/or plants as being the carrier of the beetles. Using a commercially available substrate such as aspen bedding as froggsong suggested is your safest alternative. I still recommend that the tank be thoroughly cleaned in the event that these beetles have laid eggs on the sides of the tank glass to prevent them from infesting the new substrate. Ball Pythons really don't require much as far as cage furnishing is concerned: a couple of hides on either side of the tank is fine, bowl of water to soak in and a safe source of heat.

By soaking you may have to manually do this by holding it's body in a tub of water for several minutes at time to get the beetles to release themselves from the snake. You may also try wiping them off with a clean washcloth while the snake is submersed in the water with someone assisting you: one to hold the snake another to wipe. Be sure to support the snakes head out of the water while doing this. After soaking and wiping you may want to completely inspect the snake to ensure that there are no beetles that may have permanently attached themselves to the snake's body. If this is the case then they have to be removed right away in the same manner as removing ticks.

I still do recommend that the snake see a certified herp vet for further preventative treatment in the event that these beetles may have laid eggs on the snake since they were on it's body. Because you don't know the exact source of these insects, (their country of origin or species) the vet can prescribe a prophylactic medication to prevent a possible parasitic infestation that could ultimately be fatal to the snake.

It realize that there is a lot of work involved but it is essential to the snake's overall well being. You won't regret it because in the end you'll have a much healthier Ball Python and your snake will thank you for it.

Athen · #10 (**permalink**) 07-27-2008, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter

My money is on the potting soil and/or plants as being the carrier of the beetles. Using a commercially available substrate such as aspen bedding as froggsong suggested is your safest alternative. I still recommend that the tank be thoroughly cleaned in the event that these beetles have laid eggs on the sides of the tank glass to prevent them from infesting the new substrate. Ball Pythons really don't require much as far as cage furnishing is concerned: a couple of hides on either side of the tank is fine, bowl of water to soak in and a safe source of heat.

By soaking you may have to manually do this by holding it's body in a tub of water for several minutes at time to get the beetles to release themselves from the snake. You may also try wiping them off with a clean washcloth while the snake is submersed in the water with someone assisting you: one to hold the snake another to wipe. Be sure to support the snakes head out of the water while doing this. After soaking and wiping you may want to completely inspect the snake to ensure that there are no beetles that may have permanently attached themselves to the snake's body. If this is the case then they have to be removed right away in the same manner as removing ticks.

I still do recommend that the snake see a certified herp vet for further preventative treatment in the event that these beetles may have laid eggs on the snake since they were on it's body. Because you don't know the exact source of these insects, (their country of origin or species) the vet can prescribe a prophylactic medication to prevent a possible parasitic infestation that could ultimately be fatal to the snake.

It realize that there is a lot of work involved but it is essential to the snake's overall well being. You won't regret it because in the end you'll have a much healthier Ball Python and your snake will thank you for it.

LOL she said prophylactic i know its immature of me but nonetheless funny..