Moss propagation, care, and general info

[boabab95]

how long should the cold period be, do you think?Will it be like some flower bulbs where you can trick it by placing it in the freezer for a few days?

im thinking a week or two in the fridge... ya kinda like the bulbs...

Are you up for such a long term experiment?

lol for me that's like asking a fish if they would like to live in water (i know, i know, cheesy but i couldn't think of anything) im very patient... unlike most teenegaers...lol

[Epiphile]

Well, I'm thinking of setting up some things with that moss-growing system outlined at the beginning of this thread (in fact, a friend of mine just showed up at my place today with a couple species from Manatoulin Island, and I'm going collecting with her this weekend). I'll see what I can get going this summer, and just bring a bit inside for the fall. I know that there are other variables that will be affected by this, but I think it'd be practical, at least. I could water them with roughly the same water (I should have a water collection system up this spring if I can keep the crackheads away from my barrels) as well.

[froggsong]

sounds good you guys. I think you should both do the experiments. Aaron's is just a little different, which is good. It can show how slightly changing the variables can affect the results. I'd do one myself, but I can tell you now that I'd never remember to water it on time. I might see if I can come up with an experiment to test if using fog works better. I'm watering my mosses with humidifiers (just picked up two more so I can run one humidifier on each tank 24/7 with varying amounts of fog on each one based on the tank's needs).

[Emperornibble]

Im thinking I might build a splitter so I can do my 29 gal and my moss container at the same time with the one machine. If not i can get another. But I will post any progress I make. I just got another timer so I can have the fogger turn on max for 15 mins every 3 hours. since I dont have any creatures that need super high humidity.

[davecalk]

Originally Posted by freddybrown

is there a moss i can get that like sunlight, actually prefers it then shade?

Freddy,

Is there a reason you are looking for moss that prefers sunshine rather than shade? The only reason I can think of is that you are trying to grow it for an area that is not going to be used in a tank which will not be using tank lighting.

Originally Posted by froggsong

boabab, how long have you been watering your moss with spring water? I ask because if it hasn't been for very long, there is no way to tell if it's doing well with it or not. It takes quite some time for the moss to show the effects of what we'll call "mineral burn". It can even take several months. Moss will keep growing for quite some time even if it's not the correct water, after all, hydration is hydration. But once the effects of the minerals sets in, it takes quite some time to recover. To illustrate, I'll take some pictures of some moss I KILLED with spring water. It's not dead now, because it's been sitting outside getting rained on for a few months. After al lthis time, it's only NOW starting to recover.

It's just as easy to buy distilled water as it is to buy spring water, and the distilled is generally a bit cheaper. I suggest you pick up a gallon or two of the distilled water and see how that works, you might not have visibly better results, but I'll bet that you won't have your moss die on you like I did.

I think there might be some confusion about the minerals in the water that cause "mineral burn." Most mosses will do just fine with most of the trace "minerals" that are found in water. Mosses do not tolerate the oxide class of minerals. It is most likely to be the "Metals" that are found in your water that are going to kill your moss.

The main ingredient in most moss killers is Iron. Zinc and Copper strips are used on roofs to help keep moss and mildew from growing growing on your roof. I live in the northwest where moss growth is a problem on roofs. Even with a zinc strip, I still have to power wash the moss off of the roof because of the abundance of liquid sunshine ie. water. If your spring water / tap water does not have a high concentration of Iron, Copper, Zinc, etc. you will most likely be just fine using your local water supply.

Dave

[froggsong]

Very interesting, Dave! Thanks for sharing that bit. How does water passing through metal pipes affect the concentration of metals in the water? Do you have an idea?

I just stumbled across a WONDERFUL site that I am just beginning to explore. It's the British Bryological Society. Here's the link: http://www.britishbryologicalsociety.org.uk/

If I had actually paid much attention to the Resources section in the back of Mr. Smith's book, I would have visited this site long ago!

One of the first pages I looked at was the one under the "Learning More" button, "What is a bryophyte?". On that page, they actually show a very close up picture of a spore capsule. It's absolutely amazing! Looks like a little leach mouth, lol... This page gives some info on how spore release is done naturally. Very interesting!

The forum I found the link on says that you can download the entire book, "Moss Grower's Handbook" on this site. It's mentioned on Mr. Smith's blog, and I was looking for a place to purchase it when I ran across the forum with the link. I'm looking for it now to download.

EDIT: when you download the handbook, you might want to copy and paste into a word document or something (I don't know if this will preserve the illustrations), the font they use in the PDF is hard to read, IMO.

I also purchased "Moss Gardening: Including Lichens, Liverworts and Other Miniatures" just a bit ago. Amazon let's you look at a bit of the book, and his writing style is WONDERFUL. I can't wait to get it in so I can read it. It's also a nice hardcover with full color pictures, it was only $23 after shipping. Did I mention I can't wait to get it in??? lol

I'm going to be cleaning up the thread so we can get back on track with the discussion as soon as I actually have time to participate again... I'll send out another email a few days in advance so everyone knows when it's time to start the discussion again.

[davecalk]

Originally Posted by froggsong

Very interesting, Dave! Thanks for sharing that bit. How does water passing through metal pipes affect the concentration of metals in the water? Do you have an idea?

In reality there is not enough metal transfer as water is traveling through the plumbing infrastructure to create a problem. If you have copper or galvanized water pipes (many newer homes are plumbed with plastic pipes called PEX / Wersbo / cpvc) and the if the water sits in your the metal plumbing for a long period of time, maybe a month, without being flushed out by turning on the faucet, taking a shower, etc. , if the water sits in contact with the metal plumbing long enough, you could get some ion transfer which could hurt the moss. But if you are drawing water on a daily basis there is not a problem. If you come back from a months vacation and I might recommend you flush out the pipes by allowing the water to run for a minute or so before you go and fill your misting tank.

For the record, copper is also deadly for your frogs, but as long as the water is not sitting for long periods of time in the copper plumbing, there is not really an issue.

I just stumbled across a WONDERFUL site...

"What is a bryophyte?". On that page, they actually show a very close up picture of a spore capsule. It's absolutely amazing! Looks like a little leach mouth, lol... This page gives some info on how spore release is done naturally. Very interesting!

Yes Bryophytes are pretty interesting plants. Bryophyte is the scientific class of plants that lack complex vascular tissues. Therefore they must absorb all their water and nutrients at the surface and pass them from cell to cell. A few do have modified water transport cells, call hydroids , and a few have solute conducting cells, called leptoids , but this is rare. The fact that they depend on cell to cell diffusion for transport of water and nutrients means that they have to stay small (2 cm - 20 cm) which is great for our tanks. Because they have no vascular tissues strength for upright growth is limited. Therefore they most often grow in prostrate masses or clumps.

Because they also don't have roots, they attach and anchor themselves to substrates with rhizoids.

Lastly, Bryophytes are generally restricted to living and growing in moist areas because they don't have flowering structures and their sperm are flagellated which requires a film of water to swim through in order to get to the egg. Here's a simple diagram of a typical Bryophyte's lifecycle.

Bryophytes.jpg

There are 3 groups of Bryophytes:

1. Mosses (with over 10,000 species)
2. Liverworts
   • Leafy liverworts (4,000-6,000 species) - predominately tropical and poorly covered in most text books.
   • Thallose liverworts (~3,500 species) - these are further sub-divided into simple and complex thalloids
3. Hornworts

Wow plant biology from the old college days came in handy today.

The forum I found the link on says that you can download the entire book, "Moss Grower's Handbook" on this site. It's mentioned on Mr. Smith's blog, and I was looking for a place to purchase it when I ran across the forum with the link. I'm looking for it now to download.

Here's a link to the to the book you described.

Moss Grower's Handbook


Here is another excellent link which is an ebook about Bryophytes. Make sure that you click through the links / info on the left side as there is a ton of great info and pictures. I think it may be from an on line course of dealing with Bryophytes. The information reads more like a magazine article than it does a college text book.

Bryophyte Ecology


This link came from the aquarium section on the left as you scan down through the various course information. It shows how to make a moss wall for an aquarium. We are doing similar things with our drip walls. Maybe placing felt under the moss and between the screen mesh might make it even easier to propagate a mossy drip wall.



Here's another site that has a ton of excellent information.
Bryology educational link

Dave

[freddybrown]

ive noticed that when i have my moss terrarium in the dark most of the day with a lot of water then about 4-6 hours of light with a heat light as well the moss grows and looks alot better, this moss i scrapped of a rock wall on the street in southern cali.lol.

[Epiphile]

So someone's now stolen the moss mat that I'd made from my backyard when I wasn't looking. The experiment will have to wait until I get a gate put up, I guess... bah.

[ave]

Hey everyone, first post here. I'll use this chance to thank you all for the huge amount of information in here.

Now, I'm not a plumber or a moss specialist, just did a little thinking here and thought the tap water might also be harmful due to the added chaulk (lime, chalice, whatever, can't really remember the correct translation atm...) in it. The reason tap water has the stuff in it is the added chlorine that keeps the water clean which also makes it a little acidic. Copper plumbings will corrode over time because of contact with acid so it needs to be neutralized and that's what the aforementioned stuff is there for.

Now, here where I live, soil is almost always acidic, which encourages moss growth and makes it virtually a weed, overgrowing the grass. To deal with the acidity and moss, gardening shops sell their kind of chaulk to neutralize the pH and make it inhospitable for moss.

This brings us back to the problem I see with using tap water to water your moss garden. The pH of the water. It might be and probably is too alkaline - it has the same stuff in it used to kill it on the yard. Can't see how it could take that in a viv either. Other than that, I have no clue about the minerals and such you were discussing.