Vivarium? Paludarium?... im new

[Athen]

ok here is the Question i recently designed what i thought was a vivarium but it ended up inadvertantly being a paludarium for my water dragon. its in a 60 gallon tank. my problem is as such i have a base of aquarium gravel about 1/2 inch thick in the pond side of the setup then on the land side i have the gravel about 2 inches thick. i have the 2 portions being separated by a large piece of grape wood with foam stuffed in the crevices allowing for water to flow one side to the other freely but keeping my substrate on the land side. inside the gravel on the land side i have a filter pump i believe is a 50G per hour and ontop of the gravel on the land side i have placed a layer of poly material to allow the water to move through but isolate the substrate from moving down. and on top of the poly layer i then put the substrate which in this case is the brick form coco dirt i have the water filled to a total depth of about 4 inches so the water is filling about 2 inches into the substrate allowing for natural processes to take over and draw the water to the surface adding humidity and allowing plants to grow unassisted. the whole setup is working out beautifully the water is flowing wonderfully through the waterfall i set up on the water side, aside from one problem the water is a very very dark brown color from the dye in the substrate are there any ideas as to how i can buffer between the poly layer and the substrate? or another kind of substrate that woud be safe for the dragon and also allow for plants to grow? i want to be able to see through the water so i can put small fish into it for looks and also to allow the dragon to feed off of them so that is a mostly independant system. i have thought of a layer of sphagum moss but not sure it will work please i need some help

[Green Ghost]

I have a similar type of setup so I think I understand the issues you're having.

From what you described I'm unclear about what you want help on. Are you asking for help to determine exactly what is turning your water dark brown?

or

Are you saying that you know that it's the "coco dirt" that is making your water brown and you want to know what would be a good replacement for that?

or are you asking about both?

When you ask about buffering do you really mean how to filter out the brown color?

[Waterkeeper]

allowing free open flow of the water from the land side to the water side is going to keep your water dirty. if all you are doing is moving water, and not filtering it.
If you could post some pics of your system setup, this would help us alot

Welcome to the forum
-Chris

[Athen]

i am quite certain that the substrate, the coco dirt as i so eloquently put it lol, i is what is turning my water brown it is free flow but no way for the actual substrate to get into my water cause all the gaps and spaces are filled with foam and my poly layer. what my question was, is are ther eany recommendations on another layer of something i can use that will allow for the natural evaporation effect of the water to still take place but not allow my dirt actaully sit in the water or is there another product all together that i can use that will still provide the evaporation effect but not dye my water. im going for a miniature ecosystem if you will i want the whole system to basically be self supporting aside from me having to add a bit of water now and then and maybe a few crickets. last night i put about a 3 inch layer of New Zealand Sphagnum moss to elevate the dirt from the water which seems to have helped a bit but the water i have noticed is still getting dyed albeit slower than before. im not sure if this is because a small amount of the dirt fell in to my gravel as i was cleaning it out and the dirt in the gravel might be doing this. plus the large layer of yellow moss is impacting the look of my system quite badly ill try to get some pics up for you guys so you can see it i have a few i took before and i can get some now after i put in the moss i thank you for your assistance and am open to any questions and recommendations

[Waterkeeper]

from the way your system sounds, you simply need to have a deeper level of gravel before your dirt.... your dirt should be starting 1" above your water line. this will still allow water to wick up the gravel and keep your soil moist, but prevent the reverse(soil into your water)
If you want a nice clean, yet healthy substrate, running the same way you are now, I made this nice little diagram in MS Paint(silly, i took 2 years of college for photoshop and now I'm using paint)

just make sure that whatever you are using for substrate, that there is 1" between the water table(blue line), and the screen/divider(pink)

[froggsong]

I think you should try using the "egg crate" stuff that so many people on here talk about. It is used for lighting, and is basically a white plastic grid. I haven't made a falso bottom this way yet, but I am going to when I rebuild my CWD's habitat. What you do is you get some of the egg crate, some PVC pipe (for legs), some mesh (to keep the substrate out of the water) and some silicone (either aquarium silicone, or GE type I [I've read that the type II will work, but it is toxic until fully cured]). Like I said, I haven't done this myself yet, but I have read several posts on how to do this. From what I understand, you cut the egg crate to the size you need (the size you want the land portion), and then cover it with the mesh. Then you attach the pvc pieces (cut to whatever height you want the false bottom) to either the bottom of the egg crate, or to the bottom of the tank (I think attaching them to the bottom of the tank will probably be easier, especially if something happens that you will need to remove the false bottom). You will need to attach another piece of the egg crate to the side of the top piece to divide the portion under the land and the water area (you don't want your fish or your dragon getting under there). The piece you attach to the side should also be covered in mesh, I suppose. If your tank is rectangular and you want to have one side land, one side water, you could probably even have that piece cut longer than you need so that it slopes at an angle to create a sort of beach. Now attach rocks or whatever to that piece to make it look nice. As for the land area, you can put a thin layer of gravel down (not absolutely necessary, but it would give the plant roots a place to take up more oxygen as they reach for the water), followed by another layer of mesh (perhaps not as fine as the previous layer), followed by your substrate. I personally recommend sphagnum peat moss (mines brown, where did you get yellow peat moss?). Plants seem to grow very well in this, I have always used it in my vives, and I am still using the same plants years later. You can get a huge bag of it for like 5 bucks from walmart or a garden center, it is recommended that you bake it for a little while to kill any bugs or fungus that may be in there. You can even reuse it if you redo the vive later on, either in plants, or in another vive (bake it first). If you use the peat moss, get it wet in a separate container first, it takes a while to properly absorb the water so that it isn't just floating in it. If you want to have something on top of the peat moss, you can use the coco bedding, or you can just plant grass right in it like I did (the grass is growing very well, and my dragon loves it!). In order to spread the seeds well, I mixed them with some leftover peat moss, and then just spread it on top. It grows in a week or so. I used kentucky blue grass, because we had some left over from planting our yard, but if your dragon is very active, you may want to try a hardier type. You could also plant moss on top of the peat moss, or any turf plant that isn't toxic. Setting it up like this should raise your substrate above the water level, that way it isn't leaching into the water like it has been. Your dragon probably doesn't like drinking it if it is dirty! Another thing that could be turning the water that color could be the dragons waste too, if you aren't cleaning the water out regularly. If you don't plan on making complete water changes, at least get a brine shrimp net (it's white) and net the water area once a day or so. Their urine is solid, so you can get that out along with the feces. If you don't keep the water clean enough, it's going to hurt your dragon, so please make sure it is drinkable; he is going to drink it and use the bathroom in it. As for fish, he may or may not eat them, but they do make the tank look nice. Another suggestion is to have a branch that extends from the land over the water, they seem to like that alot.

One more thing, if you don't want to see the false bottom and layers of substrate through the glass, spread a thin layer of black silicone over the side and when you are done, cut away the excess. Good Luck! I hope I was helpful.

[Athen]

thank you both very much the diagram you drew up for me waterkeeper was quite helpful and is much like i have my tank set up currently except my gravel doesnt extend above my water table ill go out and get some more and layer it up a little and frogg i have read a bit about the eggcrate method and want to do it but as of right now i think it would be a little too tough and stressful for the dragon cause i have no where to put him except for a 10 gallon i use to feed my ball and desert king in while i build up the set up but i am currently in the works of drawing up the designs for a 274 gallon table type tank to build and try that method out which should prove to be quite interesting since it will be the first time ive ever built an aquarium ive built alot of furniture tho so it should be easy enough and when i get it all done that will be my dragons new home and ill move my beardie into the 60 gallon even though the beardie is only a couple months old and only about 3 - 4 inches long i still feel bad for him in his little 20gal tall lol. as for where i got the yellow sphagnum it was from LLL reptile it is New Zealand sphagnum and im used to seeing the moss brown/green myself and was quite shocked to see it when the guy at the store showed it to me it is very soft almost cottony and is very spongy but its bright yellow. any way thank you all again and ill take some pics and post them as soon as i get home

[froggsong]

Yeah, you're deffinitely right about it being so stressful. I should be starting my new build in the next couple of weeks when we get that tax rebate check, and I will post a log. I am building basically a topper for my 36x18x17 glass tank. It will be made of wood and have an 11 inch wide land area. It will be made so that it overlaps the tank on the sides and back, so that I can make the tank wider and longer than what I currently have, without having to move him. I'll just be able to set it on top! Then if I need to clean the cage out for whatever reason, I can take the top off and set it aside with the dragon in it, and clean the glass part, and then put him in the glass part and clean the top. I think it will work very nicely, and it will also allow for me to put in a drain for his water area. I might be able to start a little sooner, as I am using wood that I already have at the house, if so, I'll start the log as as soon as I start!

[beefcakemighty]

froggy i would like to see pics of your WDs enclosure with the bluegrass you said was in it... i was thinking of doing something like that the next time i redo my WDs home...

[Athen]

ya id like to see some pics as well i saw some terrerium grass on a website that is alive and grows so i went to my local reptile store and asked about it and they didnt have any they said that all they could recommend was planting bird seed but they didnt say what kind of bird seed and i have some grass seed laying around the house and was thinking about that and had almost given up on the idea until you had mentioned it. i just got home from work and checked the water in my WD habitat and it is looking ok still leeching but nowhere near as bad as it was before i think ill try the trick with the gravel above the waterline