My frog/toad tank experiment...

[froggsong]

Ok, I think I have enough done now to start my log.

I'm building this out of an old bookcase (it's made of that particle board stuff, pressboard, whatever you want to call it). The stores in my area did not have any epoxy paint available, so I decided to experiment by coating the inside areas with silicone. (OMG the fumes are sooooo much worse when you spread it so thin with a putty knife!) I have already been advised that this is the "wrong" way, and that I am going to regret it, blah blah blah. So if you have a comment along those lines, please keep it to yourself. This is not intended to be a permanent home for my frogs, I plan to move them to my CWD vive after I build his new home (which I plan to do the "right" way, thank you very much). If it does indeed hold in the moisture properly without expanding the pressboard, then I may decide to keep one of the species in the new vive. (There are 2 squirrel tree frogs, one banana frog, and a FBT in there. Please, nothing about, "you shouldn't mix species" either. They have been together for years and even sleep on one another. They don't like to be separated either.)

So anyway... Since I am building with scrap materials, I had to work around the dimensions of the boards. I also decided to incorporate the ten gallon they are currently in into the design (Yes, I know that is not NEARLY big enough for them, hence the new build and intent to move to the 60 gallon after building for the CWD). The ten gallon tank will hold the water feature, this way, the silicone coated wood is not actually holding any water, other than a little bit from the substrate draining from constant misting (Hopefully I won't have to mist as often since there won't be a large screened area for moisture to escape).

Here is a copy of the plans I made out:



As you can see, I have left the top of the glass tank free to set a lamp. Measuring and planning and doing the math on this took a very long time! I had too many restrictions...

I had my husband cut all the pieces for me:



Then I built the bottom. I used silicone in all the joints to make it more water tight and to hold it together better:



Next I put the top together:



I spread the silicone on the insides, and then attached the top to the bottom:




Next time I'll be sure to wear gloves, instead of making me some... The homemade type are too hard to get off! lol



Next I did the GS background... I am SOOOOO glad that I decided to do this to practice... That stuff is hard to use! I read alot of peoples accounts of using it, and I don't think I ever saw it mentioned that the GS doesn't hold stuff in place at all until it is at least halfway cured... My arms got very tired holding this stuff up... both of these pictures were taken the next afternoon. First one is still laying down, the second is right side up:



Next I did a small section of the BG with a mixture of some separated coco fiber (the fibery part) ground bark shavings (coarsely ground) and larger bark shavings. I though it would lose some of the bumpy texture, but I was apparently wrong... I think I will have to figure out how to redo this part or something, I don't really like it that much.




I will probably stay up all night again tonight, if so, I'll take more pics and post them tomorrow. That's all I have for now.

[Waterkeeper]

I think you have already received enough grief over the wood, so I'll leave that be... I hope sealing it with the silicone works for you..

my only critique at this point, even knowing what your restrictions are working with the scraps.......
Lighting over the water.

People like to do this a lot, and it's a simple mistake.

Algae is photosynthetic, therefore the more light you put over water, the more algae it will grow. lots of algae will make your water quality great, but aesthetically nasty. especially with reptile bulbs because they tend to be high in the yellow spectrum (5500, 6500, and 7500 Kelvin) which is the spectrum algae thrives off of.
Animals "Bask" on the land side. so this is where they should be able to regulate their height according to the bulb(according to the heat)
Plants grow toward their light source(which should be up) in a bigger tank you would notice this more, they would grow at an angle toward the top right side of your tank.

otherwise I like the plan, very creative to work with what you have. Can't wait to see your progress.

[froggsong]

They're nocturnal... Silly thing... The algae isn't going to be as big a deal anyway, because I am not putting in a filter, so I'll have to change the water every day or two (It won't be that much water either). Thanks for the tip though... I have a heat light over the water in my newt tank, and I have a problem with algae in there, so I know how the light makes it worse. There is only algae under the light, not under the land portion. I don't think it will be much of an issue though, since the frequent water changes should keep any from growing. If I do decide to put in a pump and filtration system, I'll probably keep a small algae eater in there anyway, but I'll likely have put in some lighting over the land before I get that done. The plan was to put lights in the top, inside the wooden part. It would look something like this:

There could be an incandescent in there like in the picture, or there could be a fluorescent. The red line is where I would add a box to hold the wiring and switches. (If I do that, I'll put a mesh screen in between the bulbs and the froggies!) The only real reason I need any light at all is so they have a day/night cycle, and to add warmth.

The frogs probably wont be in here long enough for it to be an issue to put in the lights, we should be getting in the money for the dragon cage soon and then I'll be moving them. If this build works out, I will probably tweak it a bit, add more plants and let it grow for a couple of months or so and then maybe get some more frogs. I'm not sure if it would be suitable for a snake, but it would be nice to put a small snake in there too, if only I can convince my hubby... I'd have to do lots of research before that happens though!

I definitely appreciate your advice though! You are totally right that alot of people put their lights over the water. I do have the light over the water in the newt tank, but it is to keep the water just a tiny bit warmer, so it wont suit my purpose to put it over the land portion. In my dragon tank I make sure the light doesn't sit over the water. Hopefully in the cage I'm building having the light there will help raise the temperature of the water and evaporate some of it to help with the humidity. The budget that I currently have for the build didn't allow for installing lights right now, and I didn't want to use a screen top again and loose so much moisture. I figured I may as well actually build something in order to practice with the background instead of just wasting it on scrap wood or whatever. I don't really like how the background is turning out though, so I may carve it down some more... I'll post some new pics tonight probably.

[janelc]

Froggsong-you go, girl!!! You are very creative and I am anxious to watch your progress. I know you said this set up was temporary but what kind of plants are you going to use? Let me know!

BTW-I cut my great stuff foam with a simple kitchen serrated knife. It made it much flatter for me to put the coco fiber on. Great stuff is a challenge to work with-and sticky as HE**. I am finding that as I use it more, I am getting better control. Plus I have had to layer it in order to get the "look" I want.

[Waterkeeper]

I found that while the GS is wet, you can stick wooden dowels into it, and use them for support for your next application if you want a shelf or something.

[froggsong]

lmao, I found out alot aboput GS... I got it on everything, including myself... In fact I had the bright idea to try to clear the tube between applications... (I'm chuckling at the blonde-ness of this next part) So I wiped it totally (or so I thought) clean and blew the rest of it out of the tube... So, I was fine for a little bit, and then I noticed my lips kept sticking together.... I could NOT get it off... lmao... I was like pissed as hell, but laughing at myself so much I thought I was going to wake the neighbors... Of course, I found out the next morning after I had used it some more that the applicator comes apart, and if you stick something in there, it pushes the GS right out... I worked on the background some more though. I went ahead and covered almost the entire amount if it that was left to see how it looked, and I really didn't like it. I decided to carve it again, now that I could see what it would look like a little better, and then siliconed it again (mostly over the newly exposed areas) and covered it in peat moss. I decided I didn't really like how it looked with the bark shavings in there, so I covered most of those areas a little more with just the peat. I really want to put frog moss in this one spot (even though I'm allergic, I'll definitely have to wear a mask for that part), but I thought I had thrown out the moss due to the allergy. Well, I was cleaning up the mess I have made a little bit, and I found the bag of it! YAY! I'm going to go start adding that shortly. I'm going to put alot of it behind that red board so that they can have a moist hiding area (I'll still be able to see them through the plexi, but I doubt they'll notice). You can't really see it in the pics, but I also carved some planting areas out of the GS. They blend in really well, so I'll have plenty of time to choose plants for them. I'll probably plant one of the Ivy vines in at least one of them. I carved a larger one down towards the bottom, and I think I'm going to try a little grass in that part. I really think that would look neat. I think I am going to make type of platform of some sort to attach to the plexi (if it will stick). I think I'll make it out of GS and cover it with peat moss like I did the background. I really wish I had some foam so I could try it that way... Oh well. I read back over Waterkeeper's post, and I don't think I read the part about the plants before... I honestly hadn't thought about that part. I guess I'll have to see how much light filters over to the other side, if it isn't enough, I'll have to install a light or cut a hole in the top to set a light up there. I may go ahead and cut a hole to put a light there and make it so that the piece of wood that I remove can be replaced. (That way, if there's not a light up there, it will be closed off.) Actually I think that's a great idea... The only thing is I'll have to be extra extra careful to make that part waterproof. I figure I could cut the hole, waterproof it with the silicone like thee rest of the cage, then attach a piece of screen to the bottom of the hole (About the same type of screen as the cage toppers that are available) and silicone around the outside edges of that to make it safe for the frogs. Then I can set the light right in the hole, or the lid. What do you guys think? Do you think that would be plausible? I'm going to take some more pictures, I promise. I forgot to take some before I fillied in the background again, but oh well. It is definitely starting to look better though. I can't wait to get to the planting stage. As for the plants I'm going to use, I thought about trying a small succulent (hens and chicks), I'll have to see how it does in the higher humidity. It should be ok, we grow them outside back in SC and the humidity is ridiculous there. Then I have the dieffenbachia that I already have in their vive and the ivy; I'll put those in there too. I plan to plant some grass, not sure if I'll do that on the substrate or if I'll just do a small amount in one of the planters in the background. I know I want a low growing ground cover that is a little hardier (the grass isn't doing as well in their vive as it is in the dragon cage, the firebelly is to blame, I'm sure.. He hops around alot But that's what I like about him... he's much more active than the other guys). Maybe a moss or something. I've been trying to find some in the woods, but I haven't found any yet. I'll have to go look again. I found a nice fern the other day that I am going to try in there, I hope it isn't too humid for it. I'd like to have some mushrooms in there, but I'm not sure how to plant a mushroom or what kind to try to grow. Any ideas? I also got a couple of spider plant babies the other day, once they establish a little better, I was thinking about planting them in there. I snagged a pothos leaf with a root bud the other day too, but I didn't get it in water fast enough, so I don't know if it will make it. I also picked a piece of some other plant that climbs like the pothos, don't remember what it is, but it has small round green leaves. I'm going to plant that in one of the planter cups and have it root in the background. The only thing I have ready to plant in the vive is the dieffenbachia, the fern, and the ivy. The grass I'll just seed in there and let it grow a bit before I add the animals. I'd like to put a smaller plant with strong leaves in there for the banana frog (I really need to memorize what the scientific name is...). The dieffenbachia will hold him up, but I'd like something different too. I had read somewhere that the dieffenbachia is toxic, but I guess that must just be for dogs and cats, because I've had this plant (and it's offshoots) in with the frogs and the anole (may he rest in peace) for years. In fact, my cats have eaten the clippings and been just fine too. That darn plant grows like a weed! I can't wait for it to have more up and down room to expand without getting scorched from being so close to the lights. Anyway, I'm sure I have gone on long enough, I need to get back to work! I'll be sure to take pics while I work this time.

[alex1976]

I know it's an after the fact kind of thing but I'm sure others will find this a helpful tip:

To clean the straw and nozzle on a bottle of Great Stuff simply put some Acetone in it. I do this whenever I have some left in a bottle that I want to save for later. Do this as soon as possible. I like to set up a glass jar to set the can and nozzle in, and funnel Acetone directly into it and let gravity do it's job.
Again, soon as possible to make sure it's clean.

Since I make casts out of the Great Stuff often around halloween it's important I can reuse a partially emptied bottle.
Hope that helps!
Can't wait to see your finished tank!

[froggsong]

lol, I know... it said so on the can... I didn't have any at the time (I thought I did...) I just thought it would be more fun to glue my lips together with expanding foam. I guess I thought it would make them more "pouty"... lol

[froggsong]

Ok, I've done some more... Seems like alot to me, but it isn't really I guess... Just tedious. I've got pics to go with it too this time .

This picture is after I finished the background, frog moss and everything:


I really got to thinking about what Waterkeeper said about the light (because of the plants) so I decided to go ahead and cut the hole in the top for the clamp lamp I have. I cut the hole larger than the lamp so there will be a small amount of airflow and less risk of it catching on fire.


This is what it looked like after I cut the hole in the top, but before I finished the hole with the mesh:


I went ahead and cut the mesh out of the mesh topper I had on the tank and folded it in half, stapled it to the inside, covered it with silicone (a THICK layer so no wires stick through), and then put peat moss on top of it so it looks nicer.
Top view:

Bottom view:

Full view:

I stuck the plexi in there too, just to see what it looks like (it still has the plastic over it) :


I made quite a mess when I was covering the background, so I had to trim away the silicone around the edges. I also finished the tracks for the plexi to sit in. When I install the plexi, I will coat that area with silicone again and then dust it with peat so it looks uniform.



I'm taking a break right now, but tonight I'm going to make some GS rocks and platforms to stick on the glass in different places, and also work on the pond area. I have to get this finished in the next few days because I had to move the frogs today. I had to put them in a plastic bin, but I drilled plenty of air holes in the top, and it has their plants inside and plenty of room. I'll get all that done tonight and tomorrow I will probably cut the door in the plexi and install it. Then I'll have to let the silicone sure and then I can put in the substrate and add the plants. I'll likely get the outside finished real nice the day I plant the plants. I'm going to make a texture with spackling and then paint it. I'll wait a day or two after that and then add the frogs. I really think they are going to like it.

[Waterkeeper]

I think it's coming along nicely!