29G Tall Tank: Build Log with Pics.

[TimrekWTF]

Hello everyone, I am posting here for the first time and thought it only fair that it would be a construction log of my first build. It was mostly due to the knowledge and hard work of the people here on this forum as well as a few others that made this project possible (I'm not going to call it a success yet, I'll let you be the judge of that.)

First off a bit of background. I am a father of 3 wonderful children (if i could figure out the code at the bottom of peoples sigs that use the 1.1.0 bit I could do something clever there but for now you'll have to see it long hand) girl 5, girl 3, and boy 6mos. (finally some more testosterone in the house) and this build is for them....mostly. Also have 1 dog, 1 cat and one African Cichled that hates me. I'm sure he hates me.

The girls found in Target one day a Go Diego Go tadpole/frog habitat toy and it boasted of the educational benifits of seeing the lifecycle of a frog and they thought it would be a good idea. Throw educational into anything and it seems like a good idea for a parent and boy do they know how to market that. I wish I had a picture of this thing becuase it would either make you laugh or make you mad or both. This small piece of plastic came with a cartoon background, small instruction booklet, and cupon for a free tad from some obscure website. Measureing in at a meager 8inches wide by 8 inches tall by maybe 3 inches deep, I cant believe that anyone would actually house a live animal in such a setup...perhaps an antfarm wich gives me another idea but not now. Needless to say I was one of the idiots that actually thought it might be a good idea at the time and bought it.....not the first dumb@$$ attack I've had, not the last. I am happy to report, however, after doing a bit of research I went an entirely different route.

The cupon was for one free Leapord frog tad and that would have been fine but the instructions also said the habitat would be suitable (HA!) for a grey tree frog or green tree frog or firebelly toad etc. wich got me thinking, if this thing is going to be singing all night long I had better pick a song I like. So I started listening to frog songs on Youtube. Strange way to pick a pet I know, but hey at least there was SOME thought put into it. I came across a video of "Elvis the singing tree frog" and that was it. The girls (and wife) fell in love with the White's Australian Green Tree Frog and his cute smiling little dumpy self. And it wasnt Heartbreak Hotel or anything but it was a pleasent song nonetheless. After more research I found that Whites tolerate human handeling very well, are long lived and robust and a great first time frog choice. How about that? Thats me...first time frogger. The choice has been made on what type of frog. (That being said I just recently found some posts on Amazon Milk frogs and thusly am planing my second build. Going to have to sell one of the children to fund it. (kidding don't call anyone)).

Now, I was sure at this point I was not going to doom anything to a life inside the plastic tissue box so I decided to start looking into housing. Some video's on "vivarium setup" also on youtube, and a quick trip to dictionary.com to figure out what a vivarium was and I started to develope a plan. Google vivarium construction and guess where I ended up. You've got it, here. And a few other places but this is where I really started to feel at home. Almost ready for some pictures, be patient. In my basement I had a 29 gal tall aquarium and wood stand that used to be the home of my baby Red Tail Boa. Then he grew up and started eyeballing the cat. Long story short the wife got nervous and the snake found a new home. So, as White's are arborial they are well suited to a tall aquarium. See how this is all working out?

Viv build 1.jpg

A few piece of driftwood and grapewood for the background.
::side note:: Only after getting the grapewood securely foamed into place did I realize I needed to panic about mold growth....and only after several more hours of reading did I realized I should stop panicing and start looking into springtails or maybe just wait for the mold to go away.
::second side note:: I never thought a few pieces of gnarled up wood would cost me $50 or so. New rule of thumb - make a guess on how much building a new vivarium will cost, triple it, add a month or longer over your first estimation and throw in some silcon fumes and ruined clothes and you're almost there.

Viv build 2.jpg

On to the false bottom. First a word on plastic shrapnel...duck... Decided to go with an Eggcrate false bottom (FB) for my build. I was sure I wanted a water feature, a small pond area and an interesting multi-level terrestrial area. I decided on a Great Stuff background covered in coco fibre with a couple of small peat pots for planting near the waterfall. Needed easy egress from the pond as White's don't swim so well so a ramp was employed.
::Helpful hint:: If you're having trouble locating egg crate in the lighting section of your favorite hardware, I found (after 4 different stores) its not in the lighting department with all the other flourescent light fixtures. Its over in the drop ceiling department. Go figure.
Ok, to power the waterfall I decided to go with a combo filter/pump so I wouldnt need to buy so many components. I am assuming that since I won't be using any aquatic animals I wont need anything more than the sponge style filter on the small Fluval I found. If water quality becomes an issue I may get a few small snails or aquatic plant to help with the filtering as well as water changes. I have seen a few builds on forums where the eggcrate was visable under the waterline and decided I would try to hide mine in a very original and ingenious way, cut the eggcrate a bit small leaving room between the tank and glass for some aquarium gravel. (only after days of being proud of myself did I find that the idea had been around for ages and I, once again, only thought I was really clever)
Measurements were taken to decide on how high to make the filter/pump/heater containment area and the area on the left shows that spot with no cover in place. That ended up showing me how high to make the water level and also the high point for my waterfall to trickel down into the pond. Then came the lengthy process of cutting to size and using zip ties to hold everything together. The end result looks like this.

Viv build 3.jpg

From the back you can see the pvc pipes cut to size and zip tied into place at all the crucial spots (I hope). Also ran the water line under the FB and secured with zip ties (handy little things) from the pump area and stubbed up through to the water feature area. Trimming to be done later. Also should be noted I wanted to retain as much of the substrate as possible from falling into the water area so I stubbed up the egg crate in that area apx. one inch.
::Mistake #1:: 1" is not enough depth to keep 1 inch of hydroballs and 2" of soil in place. Ah, addition you have failed me again.

Viv build 4.jpg

Here is the bottom view where you can see I have cut slots in the bottom of each pillar to keep water from sitting and stagnating. I was a bit concerned about the gravel pushing in on the sides so I used egg crate braces in a few spots to add strength. I have no idea if this will be enough reinforcement for what I have in mind. I have a great idea in my head of what i want to do and a plan of how to make it work but no idea if they will agree on anything.

Viv build 5.jpg

That is all the pics allowed on this particualr post so i'll have to respond to myself to let you see the rest. Please feel free to ask questions or adress any concerns about building methods. I can tell you the build is pretty much done so short of tearing it apart I will have to utilize your comments on the next builds. and there will be more.

[TimrekWTF]

Ok, time for a few more pics. Here are some more deatails of the FB. The pond and ramp area.

Viv build 6.jpg

Side view of the pump/heater area without lid.

Viv build 7.jpg

Ok at this point my wife snapped some pictures of me laboriously sewing fibreglass screen onto the eggcrate but since I'm a bit shy you'll just see the thing dry fitted into place. For anyone reading this and wondering why I would do such a crazy thing its important not to have your substrate falling through your eggcrate and the fibreglass is nonreactive so will not corrode when placed into wet conditions. Sewing was done with a large standard sewing needle and some fishing line. (I also was under the impression this was a rather clever and original thought.....BUZZ wrong. I've gotta say, you folks have thought of almost everything). If you go this route I've gotta say, this is a labor of love. It takes quite a while to do all the sewing.

Viv build 8.jpg

Ok, now that I know it fits, and agian I should have taken more pictures but I'll just have to use a thousand words instead, I used DAP 100% bronze silicon to attach the pillars to the bottom where I wanted it. In all my reading I was very confused on the whole silicon thing. Old threads say don't use anything with mildew inhibitor (Bioguard) in it, GE silicon II is the only way to go.....only I couldn't find one tube of GE in any color that didn't have bioguard in it. So, I decided on DAP food safe bronz, wich is just really dark brown, 100% silicon. Some people say DAP failed them, others say if its silicon its silicon. I guess this will be a test of the product right here. I can say that I do like the idea of using "food surface safe" silicon approved by the FDA. And all Siliconed surfaces were given at least 6 days of curing time before exposed to any water with no fans or air movment sources of any kind. I put it on and I didn't muck with it.

On to the background, using the same silicon I spread a thin layer with a putty knife onto just the corner where the back meets the side. On both the back and side. The idea being no one is looking at the back and the sides will be trimmed later to just expose the edge of the background. There has been some debate on weather or not Great Stuff will stick better to cured silicon, uncured silicon or glass. Well, I applied it to both Uncured and the glass bare and havn't really noticed a big difference. I used some silicon to fix my driftwood onto the back and decided on the placement of a few pieces of slate I picked up at a local mason shop. They let me dig around and take out a few pounds of broken up pieces for free. I wanted someway to hide all the wires that i would have to run out of the pump area so I took a larger piece of PVC and cut a wire sized slot out of it with my little dremmel tool and placed it in the corner. The idea being that between the plants, foam, and coco fiber it would look like a natural void in the rock but wires could easily be slid in and out without having to try and "fish" plugs up from the bottom of the pipe. With all the stuff that wasn't foam securely fastened, the FB in place and the tank on its back I started the foaming process.

::Mistake #2:: When they say work in thin layers. They mean it. I think we've all been excited to see the real progress starting with all the planning out of the way and I was no different. Mounds of foam to create the background. Hey, guess what....it expands. And then when you go to bed and its sure you're not looking....it expands some more.

::Mistake #3:: When the stuff is an hour or so into the curing process, when it has that hard outer crust. You can not use a plastic bag or any other method to wet form a water feature. What you end up with is sticky fingers.

::Mistake #4:: If you see an ideal spot to put a piece of slate, ontop of your FB and inserted into the foam you should probably wait untill fully cured and then carve out said spot. If you puncture the foam while its still all gooey inside....the inside will become the outside.

::Utilization of mistake #4:: After I punctured the hard outer crust with my piece of slate (top of the water feature area) and the inside of that area became the outside. I realized the hard outer crust didn't move. I used some small bamboo sticks to remove the huge bubbles of sticky GS foam that kept comming out and what was happening on the inside was magical. It was forming my water feature for me. I would not, however, recomend you try this at home. The next day I was able to clean up the rest of the bubble, clean off the slate and open up a void in the background with a small knife. The effect, however unintended at the time, was a stream originating from somewhere behind the "rock" and finding its way to the small pond. A little carving and coaxing and it started to take shape. I had used enough foam that a small hole in the side of the background was used to route the water line and would end up being covered in silicon as part of the background. I also found a nice area under the water feature for a small cave. The stream runs on top of it but doesnt leak through.

Again, kicking myself for my lack of pictures but I hope you get the idea. After the carving of the water feature and trimming of some stray foam I started the coco fiber aplication. Latex gloves, big bonus here. I went to Wal-Mart and got the disposable non-powdered medical exam gloves. Handy to take off and dispose of if you want to take a break and a good sence of feel for working with your fingers. I also found that a bamboo skewer made a nice little tool for working some of the silicon into smaller areas and cracks.

::Mistake #5:: Work in small areas. Don't get ahead of yourself here. If the silicon films over your background material will not stick as well as you like.

::Mistake #6:: Wet coco fiber does not stick to silicon. Set it in a thin layer to dry in the sun, or bake it dry in the oven. If you think it is dry enough you are wrong, let it dry some more.

The background finished and in the tank

Viv build 9.jpg

Overhead view

Viv build 10.jpg

::Mistake #7:: Note that almost all of my land area is now background. This is one thing that I am a bit concerned about. Not only do I not have room for many terrestrial plants, I'm hoping the arboral frog doesnt really want a whole lot of room to run (dont think frogs really "run" do they)

Ok out of picture room again. On to the next post.

[TimrekWTF]

Ok, more pictures. Almost done now.

Side view

Viv build 11.jpg

Water feature/pond detail. Cave is below, waterfall is above.

Viv build 12.jpg

OK, so now I've put the whole thing on the stand, added the aquarium gravel to the bottom to hide the eggcrate, and filled with R/O water. Turned on the pump, had a heart attack because I couldnt get it primed, recovered disconected the tube with it running, smacked myself in the forhead and fully submerged it. Reconnected the tube and tadaaa...the water feature worked perfectly the first time. Oh, and it doesnt leak....yet.

I couldn't decide what to use for substrate so I decided to expierement with a home made blend. I took the rest of the coco fiber that was left from the one brick I hydrated to do the background, added in equal parts with organic peat and threw in a healthy couple handfuls of orchid bark mix with charcoal. All fertilzer free and organic. Picked up one African violet from Lowe's and took a cutting from a Wandering Jew I have in the house for one of the peat pots. Here is the Viv mostly bare.

Viv build 14.jpg

I ordered my tillandsias from an Ebay store and I'm going to include a link here because I was so impressed with the seller. Fast emails, great prices, beautiful plants, and a wealth of knowledge. A real joy to work with.

eBay Store - TILLANDSIAS AND MORE: TILLANDSIAS, CLOTHING, SHOES, ACCESSORIES, BROMELIADS AND OTHER PLANTS

Viv build 15.jpg

It's starting to come together, the small vine on the right is creeping fig and there is a Cilia lilly beside the violet.

Viv build 16.jpg

Ok one more post with a couple more pics and then I have a few questions.

[TimrekWTF]

Ok here's the last of them for now. Hoping it fills in well. Here's the waterfall area with a small piece of petrified wood on the ramp.

Viv build 17.jpg

Another angel of the left side

Viv build 18.jpg

Probably one of my favorite tills.

Vivbuild 19.jpg

I did purchase some dried spahgnum moss to put over the substrate and also some of the dried terrarium moss that is supposed to come back to life. I'll get some pictures of that when everything get cycled in a bit. Here's the moss I found at Better Homes and Gardens website. They also had the compressed Hydro Balls I used under my substrate. Forgot to mention the 1" layer of those I put down on what land I had left.

Viv build 13.jpg

And that pretty much does it for the build itself. Thank you all for reading through my build. Any questions you have or constructive criticism you can give are more than welcome. Now onto a few questions of mine if I may.

My humidity levels are great, even with a screen top. Hovering at all times around 72% with 1 daily misting. White's don't need a super moist enviroment so that should be ideal. The problem I'm having is with heat. For lighting I purchased the Exoterra Compact light hood.

Exo Terra&reg Compact Fluorescent Terrarium Canopy - Lighting - Heating & Lighting - PetSmart

In it I have 1 flourescent 5.0 day glow, one flourescent blacklight from Meynard's and one 25 watt incandescent, just run of the mill house light. Temps are steady in the 70's but that's about it. Now, White's really like a daytime temp in the low 80's and a night time temp in the mid 70's but the hood says only use 26 watt and lower for lighting so bigger lights are out I guess. Do you think I will be able to raise the temp in the viv up enough with just an in-tank water heater? Would it be feasible to place a large under tank heater on the back wall of the viv esentually heating the background of GS foam or will the foam insulate too well?

Anyone who keeps White's please feel free to chime in on how you think they will enjoy this setup. I am still looking for a good piece of ghostwood or another piece of driftwood to prop up at an angle out of the water all the way to the far wall on an angle for both plants and frog to be able to climb on. I'm pretty sure, the Violet will have to go eventually as a full size White's will probably trample it to death.

Thank you again for reading my build and for any comments you may have. I have taken a great deal of my inspiration from your builds and I look forward to learning even more from these forums in the future.

[LadyParvati]

Wow. I don't have the words to convey my awe at the work you did and at how BEAUTIFUL it looks. I've not kept frogs myself, so I can't comment on suitability at all, but I am really impressed at the set-up and hope the Whites are really happy in it!

[sinflspeed]

Great build log. Great build as well. Beileve it or not this would be a perfect set up for a Milk frog. I have 5 and they love to stay up high and on the walls and glass. Being that the lower section is smaller they would thoughly love this set up. For a White's I might be more inclided to a simplier set up. Not that they wouldn't enjoy it, and I am sure your next build would be even better seeing as you have the learned lessons approach. For a tank that size I might go with 2-3 milk frogs possibly. They grow to about 3-4 inches and are easily kept as well. and are out in the open all the time. Love atention and can be easily handled. My guys eat small crickets without issue, and they will do it hand fed as well. They were a great addition. Not to sell you on them but you build would be awesome for them.

[TimrekWTF]

Thank you both for the kind words! I am pretty proud of it thus far. Also been toying around with the idea of making a home-made fogger with an ultrasonic cool air humidifier. Found a pretty neat sight for good wood pieces that I can put in there for the frogs to climb. Link below.

cPanel®

Don't know if the prices are good, but seems like the selection is pretty nice. If anyone knows of other good sites let me know.

[TimrekWTF]

Sorry for the double post but I forgot to ask...Sinfl, is there a reputable breeder that I can contact about a purchase of 2 Milk frogs in the future? I'm sure I could scour the internet but I find word of mouth referals to be the best. Thanks in advance for the info.

[sinflspeed]

Cindy at Vivarium Concepts is a great source and her products are great quality. Your best bet for frogs would be Patrick at Poison Dart Frogs Poison Arrow Frogs Dart Frogs & Poison Arrow Dart Frogs Terrarium Animals from Saurian Enterprises, Inc.. If he has any. Otherwise I would look at Kingsnake.com Classifieds > Amphibians. There will be times where your can find them with out any problems and then there are periods where they are no where to be found. As soon as you are ready send me a Pm and I'll scour all my sources and see if I can find you any. Most times your lookinf at 30-40 each plus shipping. There are some deals out there though.

[butwhosetoblame]

heyy great build... 2 questions

1) r u getting a tadpole or are you just getting the frog off the bat

2)if u r getting a tadpole what is the website? (and if you arent getting tadpoles than ignore this question)


cody