Installing water feature

[dart345]

So I decided I want to go with some dart frogs, well I have to work on my set up first, I decided to go with a foam background and a false bottom to save on weight.

Well I am having a hard time understand where I put the water pump at.. I feel kinda stupid asking but I just do not understand, and so I am trying to come up with a plan in my mind as to how I want it to look but I do not want to start until I fully understand what I am doing.

I am looking at using a tank that is 35 gallons or less, and I still have not bought that yet.

Anyways when you place the water pump where and how do set up and do make it accessible in case you need to work on it? Pics and links are great and will be heavily reviewed...

[Ausfrog]

You could possibly make a hide box/cave that covers the pump to that it is not visible and also tight fitting so that no herps can get under or behind it and get stuck. Just make the box reasonably easy to remove when necessary to access your pump.

OR

If you're having the eggcrate false bottom cover the entire floor of the tank, maybe cut a trap door in the eggcrate just above the pump and then cover that trap door with the hide box?

Hope any of that helps, good luck!

[dart345]

Well I was thinking of using the egg crate material to make my false bottom, but I am not sure how about making what you say? any links with pics so I can better understand?

BTW, I am new to this hobby, and plan to house PDF's. just trying to get a idea of how big of a tank I need and how about making what I want. I am looking on craigslist for a used tank.

[Grimm]

Most people will create a false bottom, aswell as a false background. This means that you will have a section on the back that allows you to stick you hand all the way into the bottom to reach the pump. Basically make a 4x4" verticle box (or whatever size you preffer) down one of the rear corners of the tank. Then all you have to do is cover this square up using the foam. The top is left open and the vivarium lid will act as the top to this hole so nothing can get inside. You could also add something over the hole if the top doesnt quite seel it good enough, using mesh or something.

[dart345]

First let me introduce myself, I am a army veteran who lives in dfw area in Texas. After looking into getting a big tank 55+ for saltwater, I felt it was to heavy for me to move and a hassle. With this hobby I felt I could accomplish something I be happy with and be easy to move.

Basically after reading all the info I can find, and still looking for more, I feel I can house a poison dart frog colony. After gathering info from a local small pet store, I spoke to one who owns some, but I felt the info I was getting contradicted from what I read. I always felt when in doubt, hit the forums for solid and brutal advice...

To start I already have some supplies I have from my other hobbies, and with attention to detail and heavy research I think I can get something started within a month.

I am looking for some advice on a couple areas, one is the size of the tank. I do not want to go no more then 40 gallon tank, and I like to hold 2 species in particular if possible Dendrobates azureus and Dendrobates leucomelas. I am being told different things on what I put in there. This lady at my store says I can put green tree frog with the poison dart frogs and mix species... She really never mention any problems with aggression or what not. Not sure if it was the sales men in her.

Basically I would like lots of color I love the bright blue markins of the azureus and Orange and black would compliment that I think.

My next step is to purchase the handi foam, and buy some coco/peat mix and some driftwood and I guess maybe a petri dish? More input on a ideal setup for a homemade backdrop be nice. I will continue to flip through the fourm for tips on this.

AS far as the substrate goes, to my understanding I will be using hydroton rocks which I already have, a wire mesh, and still figuring out the best ideal bedding to provide plants and pdf with a "ideal home"

I am looking at getting a plant light for the tank input on that be great. As I tend to keep alot of plants in the tank to provide several hiding spots and help simulate natural settings.

Please go easy on me, I know some may feel I am not ready, but I am ready to spend the money to set up the tank, and put the time to get it ready and equalize the tank out before introducing the pdfs to the set up.

I have to say PDF is not like looking for a puppy, where so much info is out there let alone the millions of products for that animal. When I do the search on Google, I can find few sites with information that seems vague in some ways.

I like to note, that I plan on keeping the tank in my living room, so if they are noise sensitive I like to know... I do not want to stress them out.


I am hoping when I get paid that I can look on craigslist for a good used tank.

[dart345]

OK, I seen a pic of that , and I guess I just have to be smart on how I would cover that up. Ok, I understand. Thanks. any more input on this would be great.

[Grimm]

1st of all these are quite loaded questions and they are a ton of answers out there. Best place for you to start would be to look through all the "stickie" threads on this site, aswell as go onto Dendroboad.com. It has an insane amount of information, vivarium ideas, equipment, care sheets for each species, ect ect ect...

Now that I have said what everyone else is thinking I'll try my best to answer some of the questions.

Mixing species is a big no-no, especially for a beginner. A colony is fine as long as a food source is always in constant supply, but dont mix species. There is a thread on here that was recently started on this issue. Search for "mixing species" in the search bar and it should come up. And for a 40 galon I dont think anymore then 3-4 should be housed. If you start with a thumbnail species, maybe 5-6.

There are tons of different background methods and I cannot list them all. Keep on checking through the build threads and you will figure out what you think is within your skills range, and what is visually appealing to you. Also, try and decide which frogs you would like to start out with before starting to build. Some species require height and climbing areas, whereas others need plenty of ground area.

Whichever substrate you plan on going with, make sure to add springtails, and other buggers into it before introducing any darts. This will act as an extra "in tank" food supply in addition to the fruit flies being fed.

I have no expirence with darts at the moment, but so far though my own research I have picked up some valuable information. Like I said before, Dendroboards has a rediculous amount of information pertaining to dart frog housing and care.

[dart345]

thank so far i have joined 3 forums and posted on craigslist. I am basically waiting for the money to come in and from there what is available, i.e. what size tank i can get best deal on at the moment.

I hear alot of stuff about that not mixing two different species, but why do some sites says its ok with some? Or maybe I can put up a glass divider in the tank that way they would be separated but share the same air?

[dart345]

Ok so I was thinking about getting a 30-55 gallon tank. Despite some sights saying I can mix some species together people are telling me not to. So what I was thinking of doing was dividing the tank half in half.

I had intentions on making a nice background with handifoam, and using silicone. I was also going to use the egg crate to make a false bottom, and leave enough room on sides to allow me to put substrate and hydroton rocks to hide the egg crate.

My question is has anyone made a divider, and if so did you make it where you able to remove it? I know I can get a glass divider and foam it and so forth, but I was thinking more along the lines down the road where I can detach it easily in case I wish to use the full tank for one species.

[dart345]

Originally Posted by froggsong

First, I don't think you guys are understanding me on how the concrete binder or titebond is used. You don't use it like silicone, you mix it together with whatever you want to use for the BG (sand, peat, coco fiber, etc) and then spread it on similar to concrete, except you do it in a single layer.



I was taking about using it for the outside of the topper, no holes would be necessary, it would only form the rigid base for the foam.



I was referring to the concrete binder method, not concrete. The purpose of letting it dry and then wetting it when you use the binder method is to leach out the excess binder. This makes the structure stronger.

And again:


No, I haven't tried the titebond. I have, however, tried the binder. It works the same way, it's just that the titebond is waterproof, allowing you to use it on water features.

If you want to put broms in the foam, you'll have to use staples or glue, or put them in before you cover the BG in the mixture.

It looks MUCH more realistic. It doesn't look like you glued stuff onto a piece of foam. It looks much more realistic. With the silicone method, so many things can go wrong, and even when nothing does, it still erodes, especially if exposed to running water or constant misting (or even occasional high pressure misting). The coco fiber/moss/whatever is going to wash off, and then you'll just see the icky silicone underneath. It's time consuming, you have to work fast, and it takes a LONG time to cure. The binder/titebond method can even replace the concrete method, since you can use it with sand. Using sand will make it turn out just like concrete, without having to leach it or keep it moist so it will properly cure. With the binder/titebond method, if it cracks while drying, you can just patch it, I'm not sure how well that works with concrete. I'll see if I can get a picture of the small piece I am using with the binder mix on it. It just looks sooooooooo much more natural than silicone.

Now, just to clarify (since I think you guys got it wrong to begin with), with the bonder/titebond method, you MIX the binder/titebond with peat/coco fiber/sand/soil/etc and if too thick, a little water, then you spread it on your foam (it needs to have the skin removed first if you're using GS) and shape it like you would with concrete. It sticks in one layer because the binder and titebond are both essentially glues (and the titebond IS a glue, lol). It's much fast than the other methods; you can dry it overnight with a fan, then wet it throughly to leach the excess binder (shouldn't be necessary with the titebond, another reason I like it), then dry it again. After that, it's ready for plants and inhabitants. Two days max, from start to finish (not counting foam curing times, of course).

You can also mix in ground moss/moss spores and they should eventually grow as long as you keep the humidity high and mist the BG from time to time. If you're using a fogger, that's even better.

Please let me know if I need to clarify that better. I really think you guys had it all wrong to begin with. You don't put the glue on the foam and then press anything into it, you mix it in a bucket.

Google flevopol to see examples and to get a recipe (I do have one somewhere, I'll just have to locate it). Beck, the guy in your favorite link used this method... I didn't think you'd misunderstand what I was talking about...

Originally Posted by froggsong

First, I don't think you guys are understanding me on how the concrete binder or titebond is used. You don't use it like silicone, you mix it together with whatever you want to use for the BG (sand, peat, coco fiber, etc) and then spread it on similar to concrete, except you do it in a single layer.



I was taking about using it for the outside of the topper, no holes would be necessary, it would only form the rigid base for the foam.



I was referring to the concrete binder method, not concrete. The purpose of letting it dry and then wetting it when you use the binder method is to leach out the excess binder. This makes the structure stronger.

And again:


No, I haven't tried the titebond. I have, however, tried the binder. It works the same way, it's just that the titebond is waterproof, allowing you to use it on water features.

If you want to put broms in the foam, you'll have to use staples or glue, or put them in before you cover the BG in the mixture.

It looks MUCH more realistic. It doesn't look like you glued stuff onto a piece of foam. It looks much more realistic. With the silicone method, so many things can go wrong, and even when nothing does, it still erodes, especially if exposed to running water or constant misting (or even occasional high pressure misting). The coco fiber/moss/whatever is going to wash off, and then you'll just see the icky silicone underneath. It's time consuming, you have to work fast, and it takes a LONG time to cure. The binder/titebond method can even replace the concrete method, since you can use it with sand. Using sand will make it turn out just like concrete, without having to leach it or keep it moist so it will properly cure. With the binder/titebond method, if it cracks while drying, you can just patch it, I'm not sure how well that works with concrete. I'll see if I can get a picture of the small piece I am using with the binder mix on it. It just looks sooooooooo much more natural than silicone.

Now, just to clarify (since I think you guys got it wrong to begin with), with the bonder/titebond method, you MIX the binder/titebond with peat/coco fiber/sand/soil/etc and if too thick, a little water, then you spread it on your foam (it needs to have the skin removed first if you're using GS) and shape it like you would with concrete. It sticks in one layer because the binder and titebond are both essentially glues (and the titebond IS a glue, lol). It's much fast than the other methods; you can dry it overnight with a fan, then wet it throughly to leach the excess binder (shouldn't be necessary with the titebond, another reason I like it), then dry it again. After that, it's ready for plants and inhabitants. Two days max, from start to finish (not counting foam curing times, of course).

You can also mix in ground moss/moss spores and they should eventually grow as long as you keep the humidity high and mist the BG from time to time. If you're using a fogger, that's even better.

Please let me know if I need to clarify that better. I really think you guys had it all wrong to begin with. You don't put the glue on the foam and then press anything into it, you mix it in a bucket.

Google flevopol to see examples and to get a recipe (I do have one somewhere, I'll just have to locate it). Beck, the guy in your favorite link used this method... I didn't think you'd misunderstand what I was talking about...

Question #1 what does GS mean?

Question #2 what are the reasons why I would not go with silicone?

Question #3 What kind of Silicone/Glue do I use to attach mesh to egg crate, and glue gravel rocks down to?

I am have been looking at so much materials and few forums I am trying to gather as much info as possible.