New to this, trying to learn more about compatablity

[skinnycartman21]

If you have a tank thats 48"long X 20" deep X 24" tall, how many frogs would you be able to keep? can you mix species or do they have to be the same? Are they really that aggressive with each other? Please help I want to do this right and I don't want the frogs to pay for my learning experience.
Thank you in advance,
Nick:8

[RecycledAgain]

That is a simple question that has many answers.

Space of the tank is a factor on frog numbers as is the kind of frogs you chose to use in that space. With out trying to complicate things ,, how you position the tank will also be another variable on how many or how few and what kind.

What kind of frogs are you interested in would be a better way to start trying to help you make a decision.

Dan

[skinnycartman21]

Well I want to have a lot of hiding spots and structure to the tank as far as logs and plants. The frogs that I have been considering are as follows: D. tinctorius 'patricia', D. auratus-turquois or the green and black, D. leucomelas, D. reticulatus, and the D. galactonotus (red). I wanted the azureus but I read that they are territorial and not good for begginers. Any combanation of the ones listed or a group of a single species would be cool too. My girlfriend wants to put a red eye tree frog in there too but I don't think it is wise. I also wonder if there is a rule about lighting, like a watts per gallon or foot. I want to use T5 HO's for it because of power consumption and heat transfer into the tank. I have a few metal halides laying around but think this will heat it up to much.
Thanks for your response and I really do value any input you have, I looked at some of your setups and they are impressive to say the least.

thanks again,
Nick

[JimO]

Most tinc morphs, including azureus, are territorial and the females, in particular, will fight and eat one another's eggs. Having said that, I know quite a few folks who have tinc trios and do fine. Azureus are fantastic beginning frogs as long as you don't mind keeping them in pairs as adults. However, the tank you describe sounds like about 100 gallons, which is large enough for a couple of pairs if you can construct sufficient visual barriers so each can have its own territory.

Auratus behave similarly, but I understand they aren't quite as territorial as tincs. I only have a breeding pair, so I have no experience with groups of adults.

For thumbnails, you could probably have three pairs of some species in a tank that size and be fine. You'd also likely have a lot of froglets after a while if it was planted with plenty of bromiliads.

I just got my first leucomelas and can't speak from experience, but I understand that they do well in groups when you have a large enclosure.

As far as compatability goes, if you mix any Dendrobates species, or morphs within species, you can get hybrids, which are frowned upon in the hobby.

I don't know if there is any danger in mixing thumbnails with ground dwellers in a large enclosure.

Overall, if you are less interested in breeding and more interested in a nice display tank, you could experiment with a group of frogs. Just watch for weight loss in given specimens, which can be an indicator that there are conflicts and stress.

Good luck.

[JimO]

On the subject of lighting, it depends on the plants, of course. But, two 48" high output T-5 6,700k bulbs would probably be enough for any plants you want to grow. If you have metal halides, then you probably have had a reef tank. The lighting requirements are similar, but you are correct that the halides would produce way too much heat. Most dart species like it in the mid to upper 70s and with high humidity. This means little no ventilation, so any excess heat from lighting will build up in the tank.

[skinnycartman21]

Thank you so much JimO!!!! That was extremely helpful and I appreciate it so much!!! Yes your right I keep reef tanks also and have to deal with the heat issue there a lot! If you think of anything else please let me know, I'm taking my time with this and want to do it right.
Your friend,
Nick

[JimO]

Nick,

I'm a reef convert to dart frogs, but I still have one small reef that's been stable for about 8 years.

The frogs are like fish, they don't really have specific lighting requirements. The nice thing about frog vivariums (vivs) is that loosing power isn't a crisis.

That's a big tank and you could do a lot of cool stuff with it. This site and others have a lot of "how to" info related to building out various types of vivs. You should look into substrate (soil) recipes that include clay components. It's the latest theory on keeping a healthy population of microfauna in the leaf litter to supplement the frog's diet. It's kind of like the shift from bare bottom reefs to aerobic/anaerobic coral sand bottom reefs. In fact, the parallels are striking.

Jim

Keep us posted.

[RecycledAgain]

I shiver at the thought of losing power on a 95-98 deg day in Florida for any length of time and I imagine Vegas is worse in the summer months.

100 Gallons .. I would go with terrestrial frogs .. making that a vert would be so neat ,, but so much more work.

Leucomelas.. some shelfs that intersect, off set with two or three large pieces of wood and .. Sorry .. lol Wow, what a fun format to work with ..

I personally would suggest the leucs, If I were tearing into that tank.

My opinion , I suggest using a smaller tank when starting out. I don't know a single person that was happy with their first tank build.The smaller tank also allows you to observe the frogs, feedings, interactions, and learn those .. Hmm questions yet to come.

Dan

[skinnycartman21]

JimO- Where can I find that soil recipe? As a fellow reefer you know I like to keep things as natural as possible. I think I'm going to use the T5 HO's with a 6500k and 10,000k bulbs, probably 2 of each. I can't wait to build this, I dream about it!! LOL

RecycledAgain- yes the Vegas summers are quite warm but I don't have the humidity you have to endure. I have a 29 long just sitting around too but I felt it was to short for the plants. I cold try it out as a trial run to see where I need to improve. I also have a 54 gallon corner now front that I thought would be cool, but I would have to make thelid out of lexan. Plus I want to do that one real nice and make it a real show piece. Any suggestions and opinions are welcome!

Thank you both for all of the advise it is much appreciated!!

[Saviorself]

For bulbs i personally use t5Ho geissman bulbs 1 6500k and 1 plant grow bulb. i think geissman calls it a flora bulb? can't remember off the top of my head.