leucomelas Orange and Yellow, can they be housed together?

dart345 · #1 09-16-2010, 01:52 PM

So my next set of poison dart frogs I am going for is based on calling, coloration, and group compatibility.

I am aware that some species just do not work well in groups. Tank size is also a concern, however I think I have addressed that with a 50 gallon or more. I also have to keep in mind the females which can be aggressive.

Based on what I read the leucomelas seem to be a good choice, but I notice there are 2 the Orange and then the yellow ones which are common. If I am not mistaken the orange ones came from New Guinea.

They are both leucomelas but I do not want to do something that be a issue.

I have intentions on building a tank with water feature but this time my tank will be at least 50 gallon, versus my 30 gallon which is housing the 3 azureus froglets.

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- I was thinking of getting a group of 5

If you think that I can go better with another species let me know.

I intially wanted wanted different colored frogs, but the choices I had were different species and would not work in the same tank for many reasons.

JimO · #2 09-16-2010, 04:27 PM

As I understand it, the orange and yellow colors can come from the same population. In other words, you can have two yellow parents who could produce some orange offspring and visa versa. I'm no geneticist, so I don't know if it's a recessive trait or what; however, there are different Leuc morphs that you don't want to mix. All dart frogs are from Central and South America. There might be poisonous frogs from New Guinea, but not what we typically call dart frogs.

The standard Leuc morph is pretty common and inexpensive and, as I said, can be yellow or orange. There is a 'British Guyana' morph that is more expensive and has a different, more banded, pattern. This morph also varies in background color from yellow to orange. Most people advise not to mix these with the standards, while others say that they are not from different wild populations and were artificially created by selective breeding. Anyway, it's fine to put Leucs together that have orange and yellow.

frogfreak · #3 09-16-2010, 07:56 PM

^^^What Jim said.

We had yellow and orange together. No problems there as long as they're the same morph.

dart345 · #4 09-16-2010, 08:51 PM

Ok I am sorry the one was from British Guyana. I also see that is more money then the Bumble Bee Frog.

So to clarify I be ok mixing the two since they are both leucemelas? Just want to make sure I understand this. I am carefully planning my next tank, and I was wanted to get a group of 5 or more in a 50 gallon tank. I figured 2 yellow, and 3 orange be great.

You said the standar Leuc can come in orange and yellow, is there a link to the ones that are orange?

Here is the link I provided of a site I found.
Thanks for your input.
JL-Exotics | Dendrobates Leucomelas at www.shop.JL-Exotics.com

RecycledAgain · #5 09-16-2010, 08:53 PM

The info you have received is spot on , I thought I would also add that the green foot is also a trait that can be thrown out of standards as well.

I just had one nagging question that led me to post. I may be reading alittle to much into your question.. You do under stand the difference between standard leucs and British Guyana banded, right? You local question led me to ask. Most all of the banded I have seen are undoubtedly orange, where as standards can range many different shades of yellow to orange ,, especially as they age.

Just a thought , but You really have picked a great frog to work with.

Dan

RecycledAgain · #6 09-16-2010, 08:58 PM

Makes me Crazy to write a post ,, just to have some on slip in before me ..lol

Thats what I was afraid of .. Completely different morphs.. They can and will interbreed.. Bring up this mix in a Dart frog forum and you will deal with some crass and coarse people.

Dan

dart345 · #7 09-16-2010, 10:38 PM

So you think that I should avoid the two types of leucs in the same tank?

If i was to look into the regular leucs, perhaps the ones with orange, whats the chances of it yellowing out over age?

I am aware that some species colors can change with age, or offspring.

I do not want to cross breed the PDF's I just want to use em for a display tank.

Oh and I do not know the difference between the two, so more info would be great.

I chose the luecs because of the coloration and the calling. I wanted a frog that had a nice calling that can be heard.

frogfreak · #8 09-17-2010, 08:16 AM

JL-Exotics | Dendrobates Leucomelas at www.shop.JL-Exotics.com

The link shoes the two you were looking at. They're from different areas.

They will crossbread so they shouldn't be housed together.

You will be very happy with all the same ones in a display. We have 5 standard Leucs in a 65g.

We never get tired of watching them and listening to their call. Raisng offspring is very rewarding as well.

JimO · #9 09-17-2010, 12:48 PM

You might have to buy frogs from two different sources if you want to start out with some orange and some yellow. But, for example, Patrick Nabors at Saurian Enterprises sometimes sells sexed pairs and he provided photos of the pair he is offering. Out of the same group of frogs, he'll get orange and yellow. Unfortunately, he told me recently that his Leucs aren't cooperating because I was trying to get a sexed pair. But, the point is that you could find a breeder that has both or you might have to contact more than one breeder to get yellow and orange frogs. It just depends on what they have in stock. Also, their site photo might show the yellow variety, but what they actually have in stock might be yellow and/or orange.

The red pigment in their skin that causes the yellow to look more orange can be affected by diet. I've seen pictures of Leucs that are intensely and unnaturally orange because of dietary supplements containing red pigment.

So, if they get no red pigment in their diet, I suppose the orange could fade to yellow. However, the reverse might also be true. If you over-supplement with pigments, your yellow frogs might start turning orange.

This is simply information I have gained from reading and not from personal experience, so take it with a grain of salt and do some researching to confirm it.

I know that I was wrong about the British Guyana coming in both colors. I didn't realize they did not come in a yellow form.

dart345 · #10 09-17-2010, 03:47 PM

Yeah It seem like I may have to find 2 different sources, which may be fine, cause I think locally I can find the luecs.

some one was talking to me about repashy supplements with the color enhancer, I was planning on using that, I was told it does not work with the blue frogs.

Anyways, being from two different areas somewhat concerned me especially if there to breed, would I then get a orange/yellow/black luec?

I am not trying to do anything that is frowned upon, and I only chose luecs for the color and group compatibility. Oh and there calling as well.

I tend to look a all the PDF species to see which ones are best for me, I am not a fan of having a pet and it hiding 24/7 where you can rarely see em.