Tiny black frog? Toad?

[desireech]

Hi, I'm new here. My 5-year old son LOVES frogs. And they are growing on me, too. Anyway, he brought home a green tree frog a year ago, and we have had it in a small 2.5 g aquarium for the past year. I finally decided to give him a better home, and am in the process of building a vivarium for him with an exo-terra 12x12x18 terrarium. But my question is actually not related to that - well at least not yet. The green tree frog is from SC. We now live in southeastern PA. A few weeks ago we discovered that we had thousands of tadpoles on top of our pool cover. We rescued as many as we could and released them into a small pond. We kept 4 as a little "project" for my son and put them into a kid's tadpole habitat kit. We've been feeding them flaked fish food. 2 of them turned into little tiny frogs yesterday. And I mean TINY! Even smaller than a fly. Sadly, I found one dead in the water section this morning. The other one is sitting on the land portion. I don't want him to end up dead, too. So here come the questions. How do I know if they are frogs or toads? Is it possible that the first one drowned? The second one looked to be struggling in the water this morning, so I very carefully helped him up onto the land portion. Should I move him to another container so he won't drown? I did some research, and I'm going to head to the pet store shortly to get some fruit flies... unless you all have another suggestion. We feed our tree frog little crickets, but this guy is only as big as a cricket! I don't know if I can find food small enough for the little guy! We still have two tadpoles swimming in the water portion and they have back legs now. I really want to help these 3 guys survive. And now my final question is, do you think I will eventually be able to put these guys in the same terrarium as the little green tree frog? I guess it will depend on what species they turn out to be and I have not had any luck figuring that out yet. Your help will be greatly appreciated!! Thank you in advance.

[Grimm]

I wont know the answer to this but I'm sure if you posted a picture someone would be a ble to help.

Where are you from? Have you searched through the types of frogs that live in your area?

[desireech]

I had a heck of a time trying to take a picture. The camera didn't want to focus in on him - he's just too tiny, I guess. I am in southeastern PA. Yes, I tried to search the internet for frogs/toads in my area, but I haven't had any luck identifying him. All the photos I could find were of adult frogs/toads, and he doesn't look like any of them. I did find some info that said the black tadpoles that are commonly found in our local streams and ponds are most likely the american toad. That's where I got the idea that he could possibly be a toad, and that maybe if he wasn't a frog, maybe the other one drowned? I will try to upload the best photo I could get. I have to run out now, but I'll attempt to do it later. Thanks for your response.

[beckdg]

here's a list from pennsylvania...

1. Fowler's Toad-(Anaxyrus fowleri) formerly (Bufo fowleri)(P)

2. AmericanToad-(Anaxyrus americanus) formerly (Bufo americanus)(P)

3. Eastern Spadefoot Toad (Scaphiopus holbrooki)(P)

4. Bullfrog ((Lithobates catesbeianus) formerly (Rana catesbeiana)(P)2010

5. Eastern Gray Treefrog (Hyla versicolor)(P)

6. Wood frog (Lithobates sylvaticus) formerly(Rana sylvatica)(P)

7. Southern Leopard Frog (Lithobates sphenocephalus utricularius.)formerly Coastal Plain Leopard Frog (Rana sphenocephalalus utricularius),(P) 2010

8. Spring Peeper(Pseudacris crucifer) formerly Northern Spring Peeper (Pseudacris crucifer crucifer)(P)

9. Green Frog (Lithobates clamitans melanotus) formerly Northern Green Frog(Rana clamitans melanota)(P)

10. New Jersey Chorus Frog (Pseudacris kalmi) formerly(Pseudacris ferairum kalmi) 2010

11. Mountain Chorus Frog (Pseudacris brachyphona)

12. Pickerel Frog (Lithobates palustris) formerly (Rana palustris)(P)

13. Upland Chorus Frog (Pseudacris feriarum) formerly (Pseudacris feriarum feriarum)

14. Northern Leopard Frog-(Lithobates pipiens) formerly(Rana pipiens)

15. Northern Cricket Frog- (Acris crepitans) formerly Eastern Cricket Frog (Acris crepitans crepitans)(P)

16. Cope's Gray Treefrog (Hyla chrysoscelis)

17. Midland Chorus Frog (Pseudacris triseriata)formerly Western Chorus Frog


found here... Pennsylvania Wildlife - Showing Reptiles and Amphibians of PA List Page

if you look here it seems that all the frogs in our area that might have black legs are endangered or protected species... Pennsylvania Wildlife - Photo Gallery

[Ausfrog]

Can't help on identifying species sorry, but i wouldn't put them with the tree frog. Unless you know for sure they'll co-habitate, i wouldn't mix them, especially if one is bigger than the other. The smaller of the two will probably end up dinner for the larger.

[scapegoat]

hey, my g/f and i were out at tyler state park in southeastern pa and we found the same frogs you described. we found both black tiny frogs and brown w/ greenish spots.

we grabbed a few pics and were wondering what they were as well.









amazingly, we did a google image search for "tiny frog" and got a crap load of pics of these guys. but no information as to what they were!

It's kind of nit picky but toads are frogs. these guys def didn't have little webbed feet and were leaving water in a hurry. i guess we found a decent amount of them about 20 feet away from the little puddle that we saw the hundreds of tadpoles.

[desireech]

Yes, those are the same ones! Sadly, 3 of the 4 have died. We have one tadpole left in the kid's tadpole kit. I have fruit flies waiting for him, I expect him to turn into a little froglet any day now. Since I last posted, I got my little vivarium up and running and transferred the green tree frog. He seems happy. Today we added another one - hopefully a female. They haven't interacted yet - maybe now that the lights are off. Or when he starts calling again. I have done a lot of research and have decided that we will not be adding anything else. I really love the baby bearded dragons I've seen in the pet stores. I'll have to do some research on them and may end up setting up another habitat for them. This is addicting.

[beckdg]

looks like #15 on the list. classified as endangered.

[scapegoat]

Originally Posted by beckdg

looks like #15 on the list. classified as endangered.

wikipedia only mentions a few states for these guys.

i saw a few pics that kinda resembled them, but most of them did not so i'm not sure.

they def aren't endangered around southeast pa though. i'd wager there were hundreds on the ground where we were walking... and close to a thousand tadpoles within 2 decent sized puddles (and more than likely countless more around the park)

[scapegoat]

after looking at the list and looking up the different frogs/toads... i'm certain they are fowler's toads

Bufo fowleri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the description sounds right, breeding season is spot on... and this particular behavior was noted by myself often in the handling of these little guys today.

"If roughly handled, B. fowleri will also lie still on their backs and play dead"

as soon as they were placed in my palm they played dead and i often though i may have grabbed one a little too roughly only to have it jump a second later