Newbie Questions

[Fisherman 1991]

Hey guys. I'm planning on eventually building a viv (sorry if I use the wrong terms) for my ball python, but before that I'm planning on building a practive one in a 10gal tank that I'll be putting anoles in. But even before that, I have a couple basic questions.

For the BP viv:

1. Would it be better to build a viv with a fake bottom and plants and all that, then just spot clean. OR... Use fake plants and such to be able to take the whole thing apart and completely clean it.

2. what can I use for the background and the floor.? I know Pine and Cedar are off limits, as well as anything the snake could swallow( like gravel or such), but is there anything else I should be aware of?

3. plants. What plants should I use (if I'm using live plants) in the BP tank. Also, what do the plants grow in? Just plain dirt?

4. The eggcrate false bottom is so excess water can drain from the plants and the ground, correct? if so, what happens to the water after it drains below the egg crate?

5. What kind of screen do you use and how do you attach it to the egg crate? will clear silicone work?

6 Lighting. I know snakes are very suceptible to burns, so it is dangerous to have a light in the cage, but the one I'm planning on building for the BP will have a wooden top. any suggestion, or should i find a way to make the top glass?

7. Heating pads (UTH). If the bottom on the cage is wood, how can I make the heating pad work? Even if the bottom is glass, the false bottom and area under it will negate the effect of the heating pad. any suggestions? (i'd like ot still use the heat pad though.

8. What kind of wood to use in viv for structure? I've read grape vine stuff will mold in humid enviroments such as a BP tank. Anything I can get readily (and preferably not to expensive).

That's about it... for now anyways,

Thanks guys.

[froggsong]

Unfortunately, naturalistic vives for BP's are pretty much a no-no... I know, you want it, but it is best for the snake NOT to have it. The amount of water you will need for live plants can lead to belly rot, not to mention bacterial infections. Also, you cannot use an UTH with a FB, not only because of the space, but because water on the glass over the heater will cause the glass to break. Fake plants would be best, but if you want some just for decoration, some air plants should be ok... You'll probably have to replace them fairly often though, BPs roam at night, and will likely trample any plants. I was thinking of adding some live Pothos to my tank, since it will grow in a fairly small amount of dirt, and will attach itself to anything (even wood). My mom had some growing as a living border around the top of the wall in her kitchen a few years ago. Otherwise, you are going to need to use fake plants. If you plant some Pothos in the tank, put it in a small pot, milled sphagnum peat moss is a good soil, my Pothos is growing very well in it. Do NOT use the soil it comes in, it is often full of bugs, and usually perlite, which is bad. A wooden hood is a good idea for a BP tank, IMO, I built one for mine, adds extra height to the tank, and it looks nice. You can also put a very good lock on it to avoid the snake escaping. I suggest cutting an opening in wooden top, and installing metal screen over the opening, making sure there are no sharp edges. I did this by attaching wood over the edges of the screen. Then you can buy a clamp lamp, with a porcelain socket, put in a red lamp, and set it over the opening. You can buy a nice, large clamp lamp from Wal-mart, that has a porcelain socket, for under $10. You definitely need to go with the UTH, these guys need belly heat, and they will not come out of a hide to bask, so the heater needs to be positioned on one side of the tank, underneath a hide. As for wooden branches, grapewood will be fine in the 60% humidity these guys need. If it starts to mold, take it out, and bake it to dry it out and kill the mold. Baking once has been fine for me, even in my CWD tank, which has no less than 80% humidity, and usually higher. You can also use found wood, just bake it to kill any bugs. Driftwood is also good, I have a piece in my BP tank currently. I suggest you do most of your shopping somewhere other than a pet store, that's how you find value, most stuff in a pet store is grossly overpriced. I posted pics of my BP tank on another thread you posted, but I'll go ahead and post them here as well. As for the substrate, aspen shavings is the best choice. It helps keep the humidity up, and is easy to clean, plus it is non-toxic, and I think it looks nice. You will need to put something between the glass on the bottom and the snake, to avoid the snake burrowing in the aspen and coming in contact with the hot glass, I used a piece of eggcrate, and it seems to be working very well, most people use repti-carpet. It is advised to have two pieces of the repti-carpet cut to size, so that you can remove one and wash it and let it dry, putting the other one in until the next time you clean the tank. If you want some more detailed pics of my tank, I will be happy to take some for you. A really good site that I think you should take a look at is: BPnet Forums. This site is very good, and there are lots of really experienced keepers and breeders there that are very quick with advice.

Here are the pics of my tank that I have right now:







Like I said in the other thread, the tank looks much better in person, I can't seem to get a really good pic of it. My BP loves it though, it is much better than the plain tank I had previously. I am planning on putting in some fake plants when I get the first check from my new job, then I'll post more pics.

Hope that helps, if you have any more questions, or want more pics, just ask!

[Fisherman 1991]

froggsong, thanks so much for the advice. You're right, I do want live plants, but I'll stay away from them for the BP. As for bedding, right know I just use the repti carpet. So are you saying to use that, or egg crate, under the aspen shaving?

Also, what is a good to use on the back and sides of the tank (covering the GS foam and silicone) Will coco bedding work? where can I get this? If I can't find it, what is a good alternative?

I'd still like to know what happens to the water under the false bottom in a viv with plants. I am planning on maybe doing this with my practice tank and putting anoles and maybe a tree frog in.

Thanks,
fisherman

[froggsong]

You can go ahead and use the repti-carpet, I only used the eggcrate because I had it on hand, and didn't have the cash to go buy the carpet. I just set a piece in the bottom of the tank to keep the snake from being able to touch the glass.

For the back (and sides, I really wanted to do the side too, but didn't have room) I just did the standard BG. I used a piece of eggcrate (so I could construct out of the tank and just drop it in), layered down the GS, let it cure, carved it how I wanted it, then put silicone, and then I put milled sphagnum peat moss on top. Coco bedding is also fine, you can get a block of it from any pet store that services herps. I use the sphagnum because I always have it on hand. Personally, I would recommend the sphagnum, because you don't have to wet it to expand it and then let it dry. You can use it straight out of the bag. You can basically use anything on top of the silicone, just use your imagination. I have recently seen someone use sand, and the effect very closely resembles concrete, but I wouldn't use it for your BP, it would likely be TOO rough. I'm not sure if you can see it well in the pics I posted, but I put some pebbles in on the BG for an extra rough spot in case he wants to use it for shedding. You can see it best in the second pic, top left. I also wouldn't use regular potting soil, it generally contains fertilizers that you don't want in with the snake. I did a test on a plate, and I didn't really like how the aspen looked with the silicone, I didn't get very good coverage, so I wouldn't recommend trying to use it on the BG, but definitely for the substrate.

As for the FB with the eggcrate, generally, you would set it up as a plaudarium, having part of the water open as a pond. You can put a small one in with the anoles, but they will not likely drink from it, they drink droplets from leaves. You may want to go with something a little taller than a ten gallon tank for anoles, it will work, but they like to have lots of upward climbing space, and plants that will support their weight to sleep/bask/hide in. Dieffenbachia is a good plant for anoles, since they will not eat it. Grows very quickly though, so you will have to prune regularly. Cutting off the top of the plant will make it bush out very nicely.

With the FB, you have a sort of platform (generally made out of eggcrate) with the substrate and plants on top. This leaves an open space underneath, which is usually filled with water. This helps keep the tank more humid, and also keeps your substrate from getting soggy. The plant roots can also grow down into the water, and this helps them grow better. If you have herps in the tank, it also helps the waste from the animals to cycle into plant food more efficiently. Again, especially if you are going to do a FB, I would recommend a larger tank for anoles, unless you are only keeping one, and really even then. The need upward space, and will thrive with it. Creating a FB will VERY quickly eat up your vertical space. I'd go with AT LEAST a 20G tall (oops, I said long the first time, had to edit!). It would be even better if you can find something that is even taller. You could certainly build one yourself if you like, even out of wood, but the wood will have to be properly sealed with something to keep the high moisture the anoles need from warping/rotting the boards. If you wanted to build a glass type tank yourself, you could make everything but the front out of lexan or plexiglass. I say everything but the front because it will get dirty more quickly that glass, and is easily scratched. Building one that way would allow you to utilize a FB set up better than one made of wood would. Plus, you could potentially drill for a sump, with I see the benefit of in a tank of any size, and IMO, is even better for a smaller tank, because more water will have better quality than a small amount. I'm sure at this point I am confusing you, if so, I am so sorry! Anyway, I think I'll leave it at that for now, any more questions, just keep asking!

[Fisherman 1991]

The only reason I'm going with the 10 gal is because I have one, (8 of them actually) and I don't have the money to buy another tank, since I'm going to have to buy everything for my BP cage. Also, I like the look of the sphagnum in your tank. Where can I get this? We have a few different pet stores and my dad's friend owns a pet store that has lots of exotic animals, so he might be able to get some for me if I can't find it elsewhere.

We've had Anoles before (3 in one 10 gal, then 2 and a tree frog). I was thinking about using about 1/3 of the bottom as a pool for a frog, and have the rest substrate, and the false bottom. I know you've probably said this, but what kind of substrate should I use for growing a couple plants that the anoles can climb on?

And I've got one for question about the BP tank, I know I'll be able to take the aspen shaving and repti carpet out for cleaning, but what about the background and logs and stuff that are foamed in. And I'm assuming the snake will be able to get het from the UTH through the repticarpet and aspen shaving, correct?

Thanks again, you've helped me a lot, and I'm glad I found this website.

fisherman

[Fisherman 1991]

Oh, I almost forgot, on the small viv w/ water and stuff, how often should I change the water, and what's the easiest way to do it without installing a pump or something.

[froggsong]

You have lots of really good questions! If all of the ten gallon tanks you have are empty, you might think of disassembling one to add to the top of another one to add height, then you still don't have to buy anything! I totally understand about having to purchase everything, we are on a tight budget, and my hubby made me get a job so I could support my pets, lol...

You can get the bale of sphagnum I use from Wal-mart, actually... It's in the garden section. I'll take a pic of the bag for you later. That's what I have on the BG and the hides in my tank, and that's aspen in the bottom. The sphagnum is actually very inexpensive, for a large bag that will last you for a VERY long time, even if using a a substrate. You can use the sphagnum as a substrate for the anoles, just wet it in a separate container before adding it to the tank, otherwise it will make a huge mess. When you use it for the BG, just use it straight from the bag.

As for the BG in the BP tank, mine is actually NOT attached to the tank... I measured the length and height of the tank and cut a piece of eggcrate to size and constructed the BG outside of the tank, allowing me to just drop it in, since my snake was still house in the tank during construction. This will also allow for cleaning, if necessary. I figure when I clean the tank, I will just take the BG and furnishings out, and then change out the aspen and clean the glass. I really don't think I'll need to clean the BG very often, and I would be afraid that the sphagnum would wash off if the GS. If you were very worried about bacterial growth on the BG or whatever, the best way to sanitize it, IMO, in order to not destroy it, would be to purchase a UV sanitizer... That's just a thought off the top of my head though, I haven't looked into it or anything. I really think that making a BG you can just drop in would be the best course for a BP tank. You could also make a BG out of polystyrene, and paint it with non-toxic paints so that it looks nice, and then seal the paint with something non-toxic, that way you could just take it out and wash it in the sink.

Yes, the heat will come up through the aspen. You'll need to get a thermometer with a probe so that you can measure the temp on top of the aspen in the hides. You can bury the probe cord so the the probe just comes up from the bottom right in the middle of the inside of the hide. That way you are sure of the temp. You said you have a thermostat, the probe for that should be between the UTH and the glass. Set the thermostat so that you get the correct temp reading on the thermometer.

If you don't want to install a pump for your water area (I'm assuming you don't want a water feature then...), you'll have to change the water fairly regularly. An easy way to do this is to siphon the water out and the replace it. You can either buy a siphon, or just use some tubing, but if you use the tubing you are going to have to start the flow by sucking on one end of it... I have to change my CWD's water every couple of days, but he defecates in the water. You can just use airline tubing to siphon the water out, or you can go to home depot or some other hardware store and buy some wider tubing, which will make quicker work of the job. Since the anoles wont be in the water, You'll have to make the water changes based on how quickly the frog fouls the water. At least weekly though, if not ever 3-5 days.

On another note, when you build the BP tank, you don't have to stick with a glass tank, you can build one out of wood, but the bottom will need to be something like glass or lexan. With the lexan, you have to be sure that your thermostat is working properly so that it doesn't melt it. You could do the sides and the back out of wood, and the front and bottom out of lexan (or plexi, I suppose). I definitely recommend you build a hood too, I can take some better pics of mine for you if you want to see how mine is constructed. No snake will ever be able to escape the hood I built!

[froggsong]

You know what, I was totally thinking you were the one that posted the other new thread about a BP tank... heh, sorry about that! Oh well, everything certainly still applies!

[Fisherman 1991]

That's alright, it helped me though.

I think I may just forget about a tree frog for now. I've gotta talk my mom into letting me get a couple anoles first anyways. So I'm just going to do the BG and maybe put some of the sphagnum as bedding.

For the BP, I was planning on making everything out of 1/2" plywood except the bottom (for the UTH) and the front. And they'd both be glass. I'll draw something and try and get a picture up.

Thanks again for all the help,

fisherman