Newbie Finishing Bullfrog Vivarium

[generalheadquarters]

Hello everyone,

I was encouraged to say hello by the system and introduce myself. So here it goes. And I hope it's OK to ask my questions here also. I believe I am in the Vivarium section. I'm having a little problem navigating the forums and threads. So bare with me, please, if I'm in the wrong section.

We have a 2 year old bullfrog and are just about finished making a vivarium for him/her (haven't quite figured this out yet). I have learned alot from this forum and other places as well and decided to actually join it. I am noticing I now have questions that are specific and pet store people are now clueless. If anyone can help, that would be greatly appreciated.

We are looking for plants to put in the coconut/worm casting mixture land mass of the vivarium. But since the frog is not a tropical species, I am not quite sure what to plant. Does anybody have experience building a viv for a bullfrog and know which plants would be appropriate? Forest? Swamp? Pond?I am familiar with tropical plants for a viv but not with non-tropical plants for a viv. Actually, in the water we have water lettuce and that is doing well.

Also I have read that ambient light is good enough for a bullfrog (so far he has done fine this way) but I read that some frogs need UV lighting for Vitamin D synthesis. And I have heard that a full spectrum light is sufficient for a bullfrog. My question is does a full spectrum incandescent bulb include the UV region needed for Vit D synthesis? In other words, I am not sure how manufacturers define the term "full spectrum" ? Does it refer to the spectrum that the sun shines upon us which includes white light and IR/UV? Or is it simply white light without the UV and IR portions, just ROYGBIV?

Since we will have plants, I understand that they need full-spectrum light also.

My gut feeling is that I'll be fine with full spectrum lighting for both the frog and plants. Just need confirmation that this is correct.

I am considering the following cover/light kit:

ESU Reptile 30" Lighting and Screen Cover Kit - fits 20 gallon long or 29 gallon (12" x 30") terrariums. Kit includes:
ESU Reptile 30" Tri-Light™ Fixture that holds 3 incandescent bulbs (not included) and on/off switches for day and night lighting.
Two 100 watt Brightlight™ incandescent full-spectrum daylight heat lamps.
100 watt Nightlight™ incandescent nocturnal black heat lamp.
Tough-Top™ 12" x 30" screen cover with center hinge.
Tough-Top™ small screen cover clips.
Tough-Top™ "hold-tight" screen cover clips.

It feels like too much lighting-Would I be paying for too much light and fancy gizmos here?? I am considering getting this b/c I will need a light for the plants, and need a screen. Currently, the glass cover is creating alot of mist/fog in the habitat. We need more ventilation, I believe. So we are switching to a screen cover. Also, what type of company is ESU, do they make good products? I've read their bulbs are nothing to rave about. If I buy this set up from them, am I stuck buying bulbs from them or can I substitute better bulbs (any recommendations here would be appreciated also)?

Ideally, I wouldn't need the light and just get a screen cover -but no store near us has a screen cover to fit our 30 inch x 12 inch opening, and it costs between $12 to $18 to ship a $16 item ordering online. So I would rather put those $ into a combo cover/lighting system (Petsmart has free shipping over $60) . . . I hate shipping costs.

Also, the coco at first smelled "perfumey", a "fresh" smell with a slight "alcohol/amine" smell. Is this normal? After we mixed it with the castings, it smells better more like fresh dirt. (Mixed with castings for a less acidic soil as I heard coco fiber tends to be more on the acidic side for plants -another consideration . . .)

Thanks sooooo much and sorry for all the questions. My 6-year old is waiting patiently for me to get these answers so we can continue

GHQ

[Evilwezal]

Hello and Welcome to the forum. I just finished up building a new Viv for some Red Bellied Toads that I'll be getting on Thursday. For a Bullfrog you need to provide water and land for him to hang out on. A picture of your current setup would help also if your able to do that.

As for your Humidity Levels I don't think that will matter with a bullfrog since they are semi-aquatic frogs. My Viv keeps humidity at about 70-90% at room temperatures also. I think if you have a large pool of water with a waterfall or filter it will cause that.

For plants I would think that either a swamp or pond setup would be great for your bullfrog.That's there natural habitat anyways. My setup for the FBT's Im getting consists of Gold Tip Moss, Horse Tail Rush and some ferms that like Humidity.

Im "trying" to grow Java Moss on the ground,but it's not fairing well for some reason. In my pool section I've got some marsh grasses and java moss growing well. I've added some branches I collected from the woods sticking across the pool section and into it to provide a way to get out easy. Also remember to make your pool easy to get into and out of for your frog.


Also what size of tank do you have? I'm still really new to the Vivarium keeping,but I hope I helped alittle.

[froggsong]

Hi, welcome to the forum! It would also help if you can tell us what type of bullfrog you have, species name if possible. That way I could try to find some specific info for you on the set up you will need. I know back home in SC we called LOTS of frogs/toads bullfrogs...

That screen size you want is a fairly standard size, I'm guessing the tank is a 20G long? that is what I have for my BP, and both petco and petsmart had screen lids for it. Of course, you are probably going to kick yourself when you get it, if the ambient humidity needs to be high. If it doesn't and the water is fine to keep your bullfrog hydrated, then the screen top will be fine. You can also construct a screen lid yourself. All you need is appropriate screening, and something to make a frame. If you will be setting lights directly on the screen, I would go with metal screening, just be VERY sure there are no sharp points on the inside. I have an ESU hood light, mine has a fluorescent fixture and two incandescent fixtures. It has worked very well for me so far, since I need UV for my CWD, and heat lights. I'm not sure if the kit you are looking at is going to work out for you, it depends on the heat requirements of your bullfrog. two 100 watt lights are going to make it VERY hot in there. I currently am using a 60 watt and a 75 watt bulb to achieve an abient temp of 82 and a basking temp of 90. This is in a house that is NOT temperature controlled. Anything higher than that and I can get temps in the 98-105 range. The 100 watt nighttime light might work well. Honestly, I just use cheap lightbulbs from walmart for heat. For my frog tank, I use a compact fluorescent that does NOT produce UV (the UV producing ones can cause eye problems). I use that because they are fine with room temp, and it is better for the plants. It also doesn't suck out my humidity like an incandescent will. If you go ahead and get the hood, I would put the night light on one side, one of the day lights on another, and a compact fluorescent in the middle. That way your temps don't get too high, and you have a good light source for your plants. Plus, you'll have the second day bulb for when the first one goes out (herp specific bulbs are expensive). I have also used reveal bulbs in my tanks, and they seem to do better for the plants than a standard incandescent. If your temps drop too low with the bulbs in there like I suggested, you CAN turn the night bulb on in the day time in addition to the day bulb, it will help boost the temps. Anywho, dinner is done, so I have to run, any more questions, just ask!

[generalheadquarters]

Hi Evilwezal and Meghan/Frogsong,

Thanks for your input. Our frog is a female American bullfrog (Rana Catesbeiana). We just figured out she was female so her name changed from Billy to Billyjean yesterday! We got her as a tadpole and my estimate was she was close to being one year old last September. So she is currently about two years old, now.

OUR SET-UP
Sorry no pix -My digital is full of pictures at the moment and won't be emptied for awhile . . . - consist of a 20 gallon long tank, half and half setup. The divider idea I got online from a site called Mike's Viquarium (Instructions Page) and the housing section from allaboutfrogs.com (http://allaboutfrogs.org/info/housing/). I simplified a bit also.

LAND SIDE:
Used egg crate on bottom followed by fiberglass mesh, then gravel, more mesh, then the substrate. What prompted us to build the vivarium is a desire to be able to feed BJ without taking her out and putting her in a feeding chamber once a week (too much stress for us and BJ). This was necessary because the crickets and worms would drown in the water when they'd go off the floating island which was not too big (when she was housed in her previous home). So the land mass will be her feeding "chamber". Substrate is coco fiber and worm castings -good medium, I believe for growing plants. So basically the idea is to drop in worms/crickets in dish on land mass for feeding -and leave them there with food (?) -we are really experimenting! We placed three worms in dish (and like a pot, if you watch, nothing happens: the frog won't eat when she is being watched -we found). And two disappeared. I looked through the substrate which is only about 2/3 inches deep but didn't find them so we think they were eaten. One was still alive for a couple more hours -then we went to bed and it was gone the next morning??? I need to check the soil again. (We are planning on setting up a worm compost bin as another project and I just read earthworms are good for frogs, too!)

DIVIDER: 5"/6" piece of glass slanted to mimic beach. With split glass tubing siliconed on exposed sharp edge. Rocks were siliconed also onto "beach". All siliconed at about a 45 degree angle to aquarium. I can't recall where I got this info but credit goes out to someone in cyber space -I did the research a year ago . . failing memory. . .

WATER SIDE:
While a tadpole BJ had an aquatic tank with a floating island in 4" of water and a Duetto filter (biological, carbon filter, very quiet and versatile) acting like a water fall on the island. We had a couple of plants with some large gravel on the bottom. We basically replicated this old model on the water side since it's worked so well -very low maintenance (the filter is awesome)-only ambient light. Bullfrogs love being in the water peeping/peeking out. We added one water lettuce and its doing very well! So we'll add more of these soon. We are looking into adding a couple of feeder fish (bullfrogs eat fish also) to see what happens . . . I read Vitamin D can be found in fish -and bones can provide calcium. (but I just found out that dusting the insects or gut-loading them with a good vits powder would work out also . . . and we've been doing that with the crickets.)

Humidity: Glad to hear the pool and waterfall may be sufficient. Need to explore this a bit more. Are there any inexpensive ways to measure humidity besides buying (what I've seen) expensive meters?

Screen: This is typical. I went to Petco and I found the screen I needed (not the ESU screen/light combo). Even after I called and they told me they had none!! I bought it. But not sure if we'll use it, yet. We have a glass cover so if it ends up she needs more humidity, then we'll keep the glass cover (we air it out). We are trying to decide.

Lights: Thanks Meghan for all the info on the light. One question: What does CWD stand for? It sounds like you have frogs apart from the CWD. Like your frogs, BJ has done well with room tempertaure (we live in Los Angeles and don't experience alot of cold days and if it does we'll heat the house. ) -so I think temp-wise -we are OK. We'll load our insects with Vit D supplement so that BJ gets the vit D. -so no UV needed . . . So I guess I just need a light for the plants. So now I will consider a small lamp that can accept either a compact flourescent bulb or regular bulb . BTW, also read that the term "full-specrum" can mean different things and may or may not include UV. And that it is more a marketing term and not a technical term. for more info see

Introduction | Full-Spectrum Light Sources | Lighting Answers | NLPIP

It's late, need to sleep, now. Thanks Again.

GHQ

[froggsong]

CWD stands for Chinese Water Dragon. Sorry, I got so used to typing the acronym that I rarely type it all out first anymore.

I think your frog should probably do fine with the humidity in her tank, since she will spend alot of time in the water. Room temp is also probably fine (as long as it isn't in the 60's). You're right, it does seem like yo will only need a light for the plants (I did a bit of research on your frog, btw), I would suggest a clamp lamp (can be purchased in the tool section of wal-mart for less than $10) and a compact fluorescent. These provide better light for your plants than a standard incandescent, and they will not suck the moisture out of your tank or make it too hot. If you would rather go with a strip light, you can get a fluorescent plant bulb, and a strip that will accommodate it. This may be a better idea, and you wont have to worry about what to clamp the light to. I currently have a fluorescent marketed for fish and plants on my aquarium, and it is a nice color, and the plants and fish are doing very well. You can either get a strip light meant for an aquarium (you should be able to find one the right side to go all the way across your tank), or you can purchase one from a hardware store, or even wal-mart. If you get one from wal-mart or a hardware store, if it comes with a plastic covering, take it off, it will block some of the spectrum that the plants will need. I checked out that page you got ideas from, and it was very nice. Might have to steal some ideas from him myself!

[generalheadquarters]

HI Meghan.

Thanks again for verifying what I was thinking. Ok, now I know I am on the right track.

Funny, the day after posting, we saw a CWD!!! at the pet store. We were looking at the various lizards and we fell in love with this delicate looking, cute, interactive little lizard. When I checked the name, it said Chinese Water Dragon . . . CWD!!! I get it!! Anyway, they are darling!

For anyone, in general:

I am seeing white dust like "mildew??" between the glass separating the water from the land side. Do I have to worry? It is a little damp and I plan to add more dirt and put the plants in soon -should help drink up the water. I found a small leak, at the very, very top where the edge meets the tubing. Not a big deal since we don't need to fill it all the way to the top. But after we decided to fill the waterside with water all the way to the top, we spotted the leak. That's how we got more water on the land side than is necessary. It's not slopping wet -no water in the drainange area but the dirt is damp. Anyway, any clue to what that might be? FYI, substrate is coco fiber with worm castings.

GHQ

[froggsong]

Most of the time when you set up a new vive, you will get some sort of mold growing. After a while, it generally dies down. It isn't that big of a deal. It can be an indication that you need a little more airflow in the tank, so if you want to install a computer fan or something, that should help. Otherwise, it will probably go away on it's own. Hope that helps!