New to frogs and viv's

seritchey · #1 (**permalink**) 12-21-2008, 02:50 PM

Hey everyone, I am looking to get a couple, maybe 3 frogs. I have heard that dart frogs and red eyed tree frogs are okay to house together, is that true? Also, I have been looking around at some of the habitats around here and it seems like everyone is using Great Stuff insulation and using silicone to add cocofiber to it. But I also heard that cork bark would make a good background. The guy at the pet store also said that live plants are a MAJOR pain, but they do help keep the humidity up and ammonia out of the water. So for a new person, should I get fake plants to start and move up later? Or just use real plants and hope?

So let me tell you what I'm going for and you can tell me some good ways to do it. I want a very natural, tropical forest look. Not so much rocky as wooded and mossy.

beckdg · #2 (**permalink**) 12-21-2008, 04:07 PM

real plants... definitely! put everything together including plants and care for the plants for a couple months to let them acclimate, then add frogs!

cork bark is fine... you could also use great stuff to affix it, fill in gaps and finish off with the silicone/cocofiber for more of a natural contrast!

look around a little and get some ideas there are many tanks out there that are good examples of what you are looking for.

this should help get your creative juices flowing as well as clear up some questions: Construction of a large vivariumat www.poison-frogs.com

seritchey · #3 (**permalink**) 12-21-2008, 06:31 PM

Wow, excellent, that's pretty much what I want, but I don't think I want to do a running water feature, and want to go with a gravel/clay drainage area.

One other question I had was I want to make the soaking area for the frogs by pushing come of the grave back and creating a pool in one of the front corners of the vivarium, what's a good thing to use to hold back the gravel and moss from falling into the pool?

Here's the first sketch:

beckdg · #4 (**permalink**) 12-21-2008, 08:38 PM

leca (hydroton) balls:Hydroponics, Indoor Gardening Supplies, Hydroponic Systems - home

window screening: NEW YORK WIRE 30117 24''x7' Gray Fiberglass Screen
just make sure it's not metal

you can also make retainer walls if necessary or silicone a few pieces together here and there to make it stronger.

last but not least, if necessary you can make a false bottom.

mh32 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 10:08 AM

Definatly real plants. Now that I have real plants I would never even consider using fake. And they are not hard a pain at all and look so much nicer. From what I have read on other sites it probably would not be smart to house a RETF and darts together.

beckdg · #6 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 10:34 AM

i didn't think so either.

seritchey · #7 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 07:37 PM

For the retainer walls I was thinking of using that like 1.5" garden walling and drilling holes in it so that water could pass back and forth. Seems like it should work to me. I think what I'm going to do for plants is to use a couple of fake ones IN the background and plant the real ones on the ground in the substrate.

On that note I picked up a tank, hydroballs, eco-earth coconut fiber substrate, a thermometer, a hygrometer, and some slate and wood. And this pretty awesome mini t-rex skull.

Next on my list is the coco-husk, a hood for lighting and the silicone.

As far as lighting goes, I was looking at some fluorescent lighting but I guess that doesn't put off any heat, so do I need to get a halogen day lamp for heat during the day, a halogen night lamp for heat at night, and a fluorescent lamp for the UVB for the plants? That's what the guy at the pet store made it seem like, but he's also in it to make money. Any fixtures you would recommend? As well as bulbs? If you need to know what will be housed in there it will probably be a red eyed tree frog or two, and a green tree frog

And should I cover the dirt substrate with moss? Or is it ok on its own?

mh32 · #8 (**permalink**) 12-22-2008, 11:26 PM

There are plenty of plants that can be planted directly on the background. Then you won't have to use any fake plants at all.

beckdg · #9 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 11:30 AM

i'd cover the dirt w/moss

when we say floro's don't make heat, it is merely an in comparison ordeal. noone has really figured out how to make light without at least minimal heat!

plants do not need uvb... herps do... mostly just diurnals (awake during the day)... it doesn't hurt though as long as you don't use cfl's for uvb!

if nothing will be directly exposed to (plants, animals, water touching) the back glass, a uth will provide great day and night heat and it should be hidden by your background.

if possible best setup is to have low watt ceramic heat (light socket style). any light that says daylight/sunlight/growlight or shows a color of 5000k-6500k will do fine (cfl or flourescent is best).

you do not need a night light as long as you can sustain optimal night temps! while they may be more comforting to some pets... ???... idk, they are really purely for aesthetics and night viewing!

as for fixtures... if the tank is a front opening... the manufacturer should make some that go pretty well with your tank. you can always build your own hood to fit your tank/needs/fancy or just go with clamp lamps or a desk/table fixture... it's really just a matter of what fits your location/needs.

i agree with, mh32 epiphytes are awesome and can really make a viv

. also, you can just gs in/attach small pots to bg for more options.

seritchey · #10 (**permalink**) 12-23-2008, 02:54 PM

So wait, you're saving don't get a compact florescent that puts out UVB? But do get a compact florescent that only puts out daylight spectrum light? My two current idea's (thanks to you lol) is probably two of the clamp on lamps, one with a CFL daylight spectrum, and one black/red low wattage heat light that can be left on if needed. Though I've heard that a variation of 75-80 during the day, and 70-75 at night is great for them, if I can maintain that at night without a heater I'll do that. Or a tube florescent, and an undertank heater in the back. But since I'm using great stuff for the back and great stuff is basically an insulator...will that be counter productive? Should I actually put the UTH under the tank in that case?

Sorry I'm asking so many questions. There's so much to learn and I'm trying to search and find out what I can. Thanks for all of your time though!

I'll definitely post some pictures as I do the build/when it's finished. I've done some reading that the type 2 silicon with bioguard won't harm frogs, and since that stuff is everywhere and the stuff without bioguard seems to be nowhere, I'll go with that. And is it true that plants will root through the silicone and into the GS if I don't do little pots? Another question for today, which I think I know the answer too: The great stuff should go down to just above the water table, and not all the way down through the water table right?