Hello! First Viv - Air Circulation Problem

rxrgneiss · #1 (**permalink**) 09-14-2007, 02:21 AM

Kind greetings to the community here!! I've been intending to join for the last month, but better late than never!

I've wanted to create a living environment indoors for years... I tried ten years ago with limited success; I think it was the absence of a false bottom. Well, I've finally done some homework and created what my imagination has been begging for! I'm planning on introducing a few darts into my new haven relatively soon. Hopefully they will enjoy it as much as I do - I can sit there and watch it like a television set! I'm very excited and have been annoying breeders and nurseries for info and learning much, I think, but I'm just not ready to move past the planting stage.

The reason why is that I'm experiencing what I think is a lack of air circulation. My enclosure is small and I've seen some mold here and there, but it's only been up and running for about two weeks. One of my major concerns is that, when I spray the Tillandsia and Broms, the other plants that are wetted remain so for one or two days. Some leaves, such as that of the Syngonium rayii has shown signs of rot. I can imagine that some older leaves should naturally do this, but one of my ferns has new growth that is being negatively effected, as well. I also suppose that, if the air isn't good for the plants, it probably won't be great for darts either. That or some of the plants I've chosen are not going to work out. All the same, I think better are circulation would benefit everything. This is going to be a long post, read on if you dare!

So, the plan of action that I've been working out is to internally increase the airflow with a small fan. I was advised against placing a fan on the top vent because the air would change out in moments, removing the humidity with. My Viv dimensions are 20Wx20Dx16"H, so that makes sense. Now, I was on line recently looking for very small AC adapted fans and came across one for sale that had a warning "not for wet environments". I assume the risks to be shorting out/fire. I've emailed them about my purposes for the fan(~90% humidity, etc), but I'm not expecting the kind of reply that someone with vivarium experience might give.

Is anyone here aware of hazards from fans in high humidity settings? I suppose different fans could come with different risks... Could there be a way of making these kinds of electronics resistant to moisture? I'm not an electrician, so I have no idea whether silicone would be a bad idea. I just don't like the thought of taking a risk after so much planning to ensure something like water drainage is well taken care of... Nonetheless, it seems as though a fan is the most logical solution to me.

Things don't look to wet in the photos because it was airing out for a couple days to allow some silicone to cure....

Thanks and Cheers!

Rainfrog · #2 (**permalink**) 09-14-2007, 04:15 AM

I does look like your soil id too wet. I dont know about the fans and circulation I know lots of people that dont use fans and are fine. it does look to me like you need a deeper drainage layer. in the picture it looks like you have one or 2 layers of hydroton. you should have at least 2 inches I would think for proper drainage that may be too much but I do know for sure you want 1/2 in between your water table and your soil. also I could not tell if you had a screen between the soil and drainage if not your soil will pack down into the drainage layer and clog things up. hope this helps.

rxrgneiss · #3 (**permalink**) 09-14-2007, 10:59 AM

Rainfrog,

Thank you for the response, very insightful! There is a "false bottom" below the substrate layers to separate the water table from the soils and prevent any capillary action. So, the water isn't wicking up into the top soil, by any observation. You may be on to something with the clogging. There is only about an inch of clay pellets. I used a layer of sphagnum between the soil and LECA to act as a layer barrier and hold some moisture. In addition, I sprinkled some charcoal in with the LECA and a generous amount above the sphagnum. Perhaps, I've caused clogging and increased moisture too much with the sphagnum? There were soo many ways of layering and making false bottoms out there; I wanted to incorporate a little of each... However, one reason I think the soil is nearly saturated is due to the condensation that is very prevalent in this tank. H2O condenses on the sides and gravity returns it to the soil. There may be a multitude of factors turning my rain forest into a swamp!!

I'm still concerned about the air flow, but soil saturation could be a contributor and problem as well.

Here are a few pics of the process. The shot of substrate layering is obscured, but the portion at the bottom which is dark and not hazy is the "groundwater".

Thanks again!

Rainfrog · #4 (**permalink**) 12-07-2007, 04:02 AM

I would replace the sphagnum with fine mesh screen or week blocker. I really like weed blocker, you can get it at Home Depot for around $13 for a 3' by 50' roll. It looks like you need more ventilation. YIkES! that is allot of condensation!

rxrgneiss · #5 (**permalink**) 12-07-2007, 10:10 AM

Rainfrog, I know there was an invitation to comment on my substrate, etc, but the time for it would have been three months ago .

First - the sphagnum is not a problem, it does retain a little moisture, but it's not a problem, as the rest of my soil mix provides ample drainage - many people use long fiber sphagnum moss as their sole substrate without issues (though many people use leaf litter above it). Some people don't use it at all; to each his own.

Second - condensation is normal - if the temps outside a tank are cooler than those inside the tank - that's why condensation happens - as molecules of water vapor lose energy, they condense. That's why it rains, Rainfrog. My ventilation is slight, but not a problem - plants purify the air - and my humidity stays high. And as long as the air moves at least every 12 hrs or so, the risk of stagnation is low, just by openning the door a few times per day, stagnation is avoided.. which really isn't an issue for the frogs as much as for the plants, especially orchids. But once I have the fan in, this will be a non-issue in either case.

Sorry if I'm not being very receptive now... Three months ago, I might have considered removing the sphagnum, which would have been a mistake.

Mike

schlegelbagel · #6 (**permalink**) 12-07-2007, 04:38 PM

thats like the same comment made to me about changing my tree frog habitat and adding a 5 gallon pool to it! The time for that would have been 5 months ago!

have you tried setting up a simple floor fan to blow on it? Might be the push it needs, since I see you have air vents.

beautiful viv by the way.

Marty · #7 (**permalink**) 12-11-2007, 01:32 PM

Let's play nice boys and girs... A late comment is better then no comment. If the info is no longer useful to you, it will hopefully be useful to a visitor of the thread a year later.

kron4me · #8 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 01:34 PM

Absolutely beautiful vivarium. what did you use for the back wall. I am in the process of constructing my first and I love the way yours looks!

rxrgneiss · #9 (**permalink**) 01-14-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kron4me

Absolutely beautiful vivarium. what did you use for the back wall. I am in the process of constructing my first and I love the way yours looks!

I used a cork bark round that I cut into strips, so it would have less curvature. In the gaps between the cork, I used tree fern panel that I cut to fit. Both are good substrate for mounting and growing many plants. This method is also less messy than GS & silicone and looks a little more natural, IMO. Thanks for the compliment.

The funny part is, you can't really see the BG anymore - I've been steadily acquiring plants - so there aren't many open spaces.

I've really been enjoying the planted aspect of vivaria. It looks a little messy now, but I have plans to move a few things around to give the tank some of it's original flow back (that is, I'm going to use some of these plants in my next tank).

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/g...G_4117_1_1.jpg

Mike