Two new family members

[herpmad_boi]

Yeah, Calci-sand says its good for impaction . And big suppliers recommend that, which is really bad for leo's. Are they Bell albino's by any chance?. Also, i dont see any thermostat sensors. It's very dangerous to use without one as the heat mat can very easily over heat. And Black bulbs aren't the best either, for daytime heat. I'd buy a low wattage red bulb (as reps cant see red) and keep it on all day and night, at about 90f. Using it combined with a dimmer stat too. IMO, using heat bulbs for the primary heat is best, so use that combined with a dimmer stat, and used the heat mat as night time heat, or just simply turn the stat (bulb) down to 70-75 for night time heat, would save you electricity, and more importantly money, with all the recession going on

[Futurehabitatcreator]

I know you said its your opinion that heat bulbs are best for primary heat.

But leopard geckos need belly heat to help with digestion, otherwise, impaction risks rise even higher. Which is a definate no no if your going to stick with sand. If you use sand, you have to make sure your leo gets belly heat at the correct temperatures. Which I believe are anywhere from 88-95.

[herpmad_boi]

yes. But, in the wild, the heat isn't produced 'underground', but from the sun above reflecting on the ground. So either way, they both work both as well and have the same effect. All lizards gather heat via belly and yet you can use either heat mat or bulb. But, im using a heatmat atm, and i find that the heat gradient is better with bulbs.

[Futurehabitatcreator]

I see =)

[froggsong]

Aren't leos usually kept on sand? I plan to keep my bearded dragon on sand when he is a bit older. Not calci-sand though, from what I read it makes them want to eat it because they enjoy the flavor (and they lick stuff alot). I'l be using sifted, washed play sand (I made sure what I bought was not treated with a mold inhibitor or anything).

This has seemed to turn into an argument about calci-sand and what type of heating is best... I think Nighsliv was just showing the new babies. While I understand that calci-sand has been shown over and over to cause impaction because the herps eat it (and I'm talking on purpose, since they flavor the stuff, like fruit, I believe), are we 100% that is even calci-sand? Is it Nighsliv? I'm not saying it isn't, but I AM saying that it has been assumed to be. Fine grained, spherical sand grains are far less likely to cause impaction that regular square grains. Sure, there is more of a risk with this type of substrate than with newspaper or tiles, but there is risk with any substrate that can be consumed. There is even risk of impaction with the foods we feed our herps. Impaction is always a risk, but with proper hydration, supplementation, and monitoring, it can be avoided. Now, on to the bulbs. Herpmad, what exactly is your reasoning behind discouraging the use of a black light bulb for heat? I use black bulbs for nighttime heat in all of my enclosures that require it, other than my BP tank, since I cannot get a 25W black bulb (he has a heat mat, so I only need to boost the temps). I choose this OVER red bulbs. The wattage is higher, allowing me to more easily reach the temps I need at night, and the black light cannot be seen by the herps either (black light is actually purple, btw). Even if it is somewhat visible (which is possible with the mix of red and blue light), the blue light produced will just mimic moonlight, while the red part will not be visible. I sincerely doubt that it is pitch black dark at night where these lizards come from. They probably benefit from a tiny bit of light at night that mimics moonlight. IMO, a heat mat is only necessary for animals that will not bask under a light. The light warms the substrate producing ample belly heat (this can be maintained better by placing a flat rock under the light source) that is more like what would be found in nature. Of course, with a heat mat, you can provide unvarying belly heat 24/7. I guess it really depends on the preference of the keeper, since both are sufficient for most lizards (that will bask under a light).

Ok, I think I've had my say...

[froggsong]

Oh, btw, Nighsliv, those are GORGEOUS babies. You should really take that to heart because I think most leos are fugly. yup, not just ugly but fugly. Your's are really pretty though. I can't wait to see how they grow up.

[herpmad_boi]

Ahh.. black bulbs over here are actually black=). And that isnt recommended. Yes, i did use sand with my leo's. It is called Dry kilned sand, which has been sterillised and has very small grains. but i decided to change to tiles. Leo's are nocturnal, and they bask on the ground, which, has been heated either way, obvioulsley in the wild thats by 'bulb heating, its the sun, but this is same as bulb' and the heat of the ground they bask on. They dont bask of how a beardie does, they just sit, and soak up that heat. So either way they both work just as well and its all down to the keeper, and size of tank, becuase it would cost more for a large heatmat than a ligh set-up. Vice versa for smaller tanks.

[froggsong]

While the bulb is black, the light it produces is ALWAYS purple. This is the same with an incandescent style light and a tube light. I know leo's don't bask under the light the same way a beardie does, lol, that would be hard for them to learn when the sun isn't out when they are basking... I totally agree with the cost issues associated with heat mats, especially when you buy all of the necessary equipment (like a thermostat). That's why I use bulbs, they are cheap to buy, cheap to replace, and easy to regulate (whether buy using a dimmer or changing the wattage of the bulb). The only tank I have a heat mat on is my BP, and that will be changing as soon as I get the enclosures built that I am planning. I'll have him over the beardie tank, and the heat from the beardie's bulbs will heat the bottom of his tank. So see, you can even make a box to go under a leo's tank that houses bulbs to get heat from below without the expense of a heat mat.

[Pavel]

Beautiful gecks. Do make sure as Future mentioned that they are not both males. That would likely have disasterous consequences later on.

[Chu'Wuti]

Actually, I am really impressed at how knowledgeable both Herpmad_boi and Futurehabitatcreator are, and how willing to learn more each one is.

You guys are great! Froggsong, thanks for the additional info, too. I didn't know that black lights are actually purple, though I'm sure my DH does! But the idea of using one tanks upper lighting to heat the bottom of another--SMART! That takes all my thinking about another enclosure to a different level . . .

and you're all correct about those geckos--they are beautiful! I wouldn't know how to sex one, so I hope Nighsliv does!