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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasteriaphile View Post
First of all, there are not "those browns" and "the Bahamians". Both common names apply to the same species, Anolis sagrei. This species appears to vary somewhat in size because of the introduction of the Bahama genes. The old "true Cuban form" males could get pretty goodly sized, say just a bit shorter than your typical Green Anole (i.e. Anolis carolinensis at 7"-9" long). But they are stockier. These "new", "mongrel" sagreis with the (presumably) Bahamanian genes, are a bit smaller than the old ones were, maybe only 5"-6" incl. tail.
Interesting, So let me get this strait. the Bahamians mate with the female browns, this union toss off variants? Some that look like the Brown anole but stockier, and some that carry more of the Bahamian traits. I use this example loosely, The Bahamians are polluting the gene pool ?

I placed a US quarter in the picture with the presumed brown anoles, by my estimation we are pushing 7 inch including the tail. When captured there was a definite nucal crest as well.

From your post I assume you think they are mongrels?

Dan
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Last edited by RecycledAgain; 06-09-2009 at 09:15 PM..
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by RecycledAgain View Post
Interesting, So let me get this strait (sic). the Bahamians mate with the female browns, this union toss off variants? Some that look like the Brown anole but stockier, and some that carry more of the Bahamian traits. I use this example loosely, The Bahamians are polluting the gene pool ?

I placed a US quarter in the picture with the presumed brown anoles, by my estimation we are pushing 7 inch including the tail. When captured there was a definite nucal crest as well.

From your post I assume you think they are mongrels?

Dan
No. The "Brown Anole" is a common name for Anolis sagrei. It is not a name for females; it applies to both sexes of the species Anolis sagrei. There are various races or forms of A. sagrei which originated in various places where they developed over time into somewhat distinct forms of the species. Hence I speak of the "true Cuban form" or the Bahamanian form, etc.

When the "Brown Anole" (A. sagrei) first arrived on our blessed shores in south Florida (some 50-60 years ago?), apparently the race that arrived then was the Cuban form. It was, as I have said, a larger, stockier animal and the males had the nuchal crest, etc. It also had the markings I illustrated in the Conant field guide drawing (q.v.).

Then, later, again apparently, other races of A. sagrei managed to "invade" south Florida, such as what I take to be the different Bahama form. When this Bahamanian race arrived it mated with the already present Cuban form, "polluting" the gene pool so that south Florida no longer had just one race of A. sagrei but rather a hodge-podge of races, forms, whatever. That is why I used the term "mongrel", in the sense used for dogs.

What I am still wondering is, if there are still any of the original race in south Florida which looks like the Cuban form in my illustration?

BB
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Old 06-09-2009, 11:37 AM
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What is your opinion of the pictures I posted? I thought they looked the same as your example.

Dan
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RecycledAgain View Post
What is your opinion of the pictures I posted? I thought they looked the same as your example.

Dan
Sorry Dan, I didn't see your posting; I read the replies on my mail program and neglected to "register" that you had uploaded photos.

Yes! the male A. sagrei in your photos (2) are indeed the "true Cuban form". So then, they still exist. It is interesting to me that you differentiate between these forms yourself, by calling the smaller, faster race Bahamans. Indeed the smaller race is VERY fast!

Now I need to figure out how to get a pair or a male and maybe two females. Expect a private message and some pleading

Breck
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Old 06-09-2009, 09:53 PM
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It was more to do with the color and patterns that led me to describe Browns and Bahamians. I apologize for the confusion, it had very little to do with Males and Females until you had me really looking at them. I appreciate the education, I never really paid attention to the difference. I assumed it was habitat/stress or mating that attributed to the color difference.

I did receive your PM, and I am willing to help. First and foremost I have no experience shipping live animals. It scares me to no end. My 2nd concern is legality of shipping live animals from Florida.

Dan
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Last edited by RecycledAgain; 06-09-2009 at 09:55 PM..
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