another newbie - 29 gallon startup

[brett1138]

I've been running a successful 10-gallon aquarium for the past couple of years. It currently holds an opaline gourami, three danios and a crab. I also have this empty 29-gallon box. I think I'm ready to expand and try some land-dwelling friends, which I have NO experience with.

I'll probably include 12-15 gallons of water and a land area for plants and a critter or three. I still haven't bought gear but am looking at some used stuff that I can get locally for cheap. Ideally I'd like to use an over-the-back filter to pump water from the U-shaped watermass into a waterfall/stream that flows along the back to form a circle, and into the watermass again.

I'm thinking rainforest environment and would like to include a fogger to keep things moist.

I'm thinking also of construcing a net or hammock of some type to satisfy arboreals or climbers with some moss on top.

Am I biting off too much for a 29 gallon? What kinds of critter should I start with? What kinds of flora? would a shelf above part of the water work for a slightly dryer area?

Almost forgot-- would like to include a beach/marsh somehow to satisfy toad/crab friends.

Ugh... so much to consider!

Thanks in advance

[brett1138]

I made my first paludarium-related purchase today! I've also made some progress on ideas about how to include a beach/mud area for the fiddler crab and fire-bellied toads (assuming i include them). Two separate water areas can be maintained; a 6" deep "river" with a slight current flowing from a waterfall, along the long end and around the corner, and halfway along it, the plexiglass wall separating it from the land could have an opening which leads to a lagoon/swamp/beach area. the water level could be lower here, as long as some type of "flushing" mechanism could be implemented to keep it from overflowing back into the river. or perhaps a spillway gate which has a float attached which would raise WITH the water level and prevent the filter getting muddied up. I'll be using an over-the-back whisper 30 filter with an extension on the tube for waterfall/water circulation, which will reach the water with the openings submerged.

At the pet store today i noticed a dry-clay substrate intended for a drier climate terrarium which could be wetted, molded & shaped, then dried to maintain a certain shape, such as a cave or burrow. This might be an ideal hangout for the fiddler crab, as long as it would hold its shape in high humidity and possibly in water. Any thoughts?

I'm really excited about the possibility of housing red-eyed tree frogs! I had never really considered it a possibility, because of the exotic nature of the thing. WOW! I'm also considering dart frogs, fire-bellied toads or salamanders, and breeding feeder-guppies.

For plants I was thinking maybe an orchid but the plant store lady said there's a danger if the roots get too wet. For now, I'm thinking a small bromeliad and/or peace lillies for the bottom level and some small epyphitics (hopefully a fern) for upper levels. Headed tropical plant shopping day after tomorrow.

I want to keep this as natural as possible, so I'll probably avoid very much GS and the like. Although, my first purchase was piece of vinyl trim which will anchor hemp supports, which will hold branches and the waterfall features in place. More on that later.

I'll post some diagrams of what I'm thikning soon.

[HewesHort]

hello brett1138, and welcome to the forum! your plan sounds good, im having a little trouble visualizing all of it, some diagrams will help. for palnts consider Ficus pumila or a small leaved ivy, something to vine across the ground and branches, my FBTs love to hide in it. if you want an orchid, find one that will grow in your conditions. i know there are some terrestial ones that can grow in very moist soil. you may have to order from a specialist though, but price generally depends on rarity. selaginella is another low grower that might suit you. acorus species are a good marginal plant (grows in wet soil). you may want to avoid any sort of soil in your beach area as it will rot very quickly. you will also need to ensure your substrate does not become water logged. unless you have the space for them you may want to hold off on getting the plants untill the tank is ready to be planted.

[brett1138]

thanks much for your input I drew out a diagram last night on graph paper of what i was thinking and learned that one thing i have in mind is to have all sides open (viewable). The vinyl trim I bought, which will be attached to the upper rim of the tank, is dotted with holes which i will use to thread hemp or another natural fiber through to suspend certain features above the ground, such as shelves, branches, and a cascading waterfall made of individual suspended rocks which leak water onto one another.

Which brings me to another idea I had last night, which I'm not sure will work. I've seen reptile containments which are made of what looks like nylon stocking material. Does anyone have input on whether creating another foot or two above the palu with this type of wall would dry out the humidity in the entire enclosure created by the fogger and mister(s)? I could build up a wooden or plastic structure to support it and the light(s) and suspend a couple of branches with the hemp system so that they're not touching any sides of the top part. Air movement in the room with the palu would probably be minimal. I can't tell at all whether this would work or not, so any input would be greatly appreciated.


I'll probably hold off on buying the plants until I have a fogger and hood, thanks for the thought, I'll just hunt for now. And thanks a ton for the species recommendations. Spike moss is definitely beautiful as is the creeping fig. Would there be a way to keep the mud from rotting? Maybe if i replace half of it a week or some such? I'd love to have a nice little mud pool for the FBTs or salamanders to feel safe in. I wouldn't want to breed mosquitos either, probably.

I'll post a diagram soon, as the one I came up with last night was definitely very crowded.

[brett1138]

I made my first big palu-purchase yesterday, a 29g tank with stand, hood (w/ grow lite), heater, over-the-back filter, some gravel and they even threw in a spare 10g (with no accessories).

I bought a few extension tubes for the over-the-back so that i can pump from shallowish (6-8") water from the bottom into a waterfall. I'm hoping to include a shallower (0-2") water area along the waterfall somewhere which will then pour into the pool in the bottom. There will also be a land Area and a few small live plants included. Not sure how all this is going to work just yet.

I plan to keep the humidity up with a timed fogger and some intermittent mistings. Eventually a drip system might run from the waterfall somehow.

Tonight we found some beautiful pieces of driftwood on the river which I hope to include in the system after treating according to the following method:

- power wash to remove loose or rotten areas, dirt and grimeys
- soak in hot water (as hot as I can get it)
for about a week (changing water often)
- bake at 200F for about 3 hours

Hooray! One of the larger pieces of driftwood will make a great background, keeping the tank as natural as possible.

Not sure exactly what herps will be included just yet, though FBTs seem a good start.

Though I am a long way from actually having this built/stocked, I keep running into questions I don't know the answer to.

o Should I use an air pump or some such for ventilation or are live plants and occasionally opening the tank to mist enough?

o Is this process enough to treat the driftwood?

o Should a fogger be placed outside the tank with fog piped in or will it work to have the foghead inside the tank with a mesh screen over a yogurt cup sized pool as part of the waterfall?

o I'll be honest and say I'm a dreamer... I'm considering going for a mixed species environment and have heard that frogs and Anoles can get along. If I eventually stack another 29g on top of an existing palu-environment can I add Anoles to the higher, drier areas without extreme conflict? Also, do FBTs and dwarf waterdogs get along? I don't have much experience but am willing to learn. I'm also pretty patient.

No diagrams yet sorry... soon... when i get an idea what i want the wood to do.

[HewesHort]

Ill answer your questions as best i can:

- if the tank is entirely enclosed (i.e. no screen top), you may want to install a pc fan to help with ventilation

-if you are going to bake it soaking wood in cool water is fine, baking causes the water to boil out of the wood. depending on how much tanin the wood contains, you may need to change the water daily. when the water stays clear for a few day, its time to bake the wood.

- the placement of the fogger depands on the type you get, what part of the country/world do you live in? the fogger and mist seems a bit of overkill for FBTs in a palu.

-you shouldnt mix any species unless you have alot of husbandry experience. also FBTs are mildly toxic, enough to kill most other herps over time. i have seen them mixed with FBNs before, but i have never kept newts, so idk. the basic rule of thumb with species mixing: if you have to ask, dont do it.

im looking forward to what you come up with! good luck!