My first Paludarium

central newt · #1 03-10-2010, 11:04 PM

I am wanting to start my first paludarium, but have many questions that I hope can be answered by some of the more experienced paludarium keepers on this site.
I will be using a 29 gallon tank, and housing 2-3 central newts (Notophthalmus viridescens louisianensis), a five-lined skink (Eumeces fasciatus), and most likely a few rainbow darters (Etheostoma caeruleum). I live in Southeast Missouri and have captured all these animals from ponds and creeks around my house. I find that some of our native creatures are just as beautiful, unique, and interesting as animals at a lfs!
I plan on having around 6 to 8" of water and creating my own styerfoam 3d background. I will be leaving enough room behind the background to place a heater and filter. I plan on carving out rock formations and applying quickcrete on the half of the styerfoam that will be underwater. I am confused as what to use on the half above the water line. I have heard of people using coconut fiber/or matting? I could silicone that to the styerfoam I guess? I am really wanting moss to grow on my background and dont know if coconut fiber will allow that to happen. Also I was considering cutting "pockets" into the styerfoam (vertical wall) and planting some plants in those. Has anyone tried this method do you think it will work? I would also like to grow plants on the "shelf" out over the water but I dont know what to use to cover the styerfoam on that either (soil would eventually cloud the water) would I need to use the "pocket method" also. I am totally new to this and somewhat overwhelmed I would love to hear everyones advice and do's and dont's. Im posting a VERY rough sketch of what I want it to look like, after I get everything in order I will post some pictures of construction along with questions about lighting, substrates, and others in the future

... Thanks All

Epiphile · #2 03-11-2010, 06:03 AM

Hi central newt- you'll have to have a way to hydrate the back wall if you want moss to grow on it. Coconut fibre can work for this, but it will have to be misted/have water passed over it regularly for this to work. Your idea of creating pockets for plants should be fine, but be sure to allow a way for excess water to drain.

Have a look through the build logs here on the site- they should give you some ideas. And welcome to the forum.

froggsong · #3 03-11-2010, 12:09 PM

Welcome indeed! Please do have a look at the stickies in the various forums, especially Terr-Construction. You should find lots of ideas in there! You might want to take a look at my thread about my topper for my 40g tank my CWD is in. I'll grab you a link and edit it into the post in a bit.

EDIT: Here's that link: https://www.vivariumforum.com/communi...te-topper.html

The reason I think you should take a look at my build is that I think I've come up with quite a good way to allow moss to grow easily on the BG while making it look really nice. This method doesn't take long, and is pretty easy. What I did was spray my Great Stuff expanding foam, let it cure, then carved and sanded it the way I wanted, being sure to remove all of the skin to expose the inner foam, then painted it with Krylon Fusion and stone look spray paints. I sprinkled sand on it to give it texture, then dry brushed it to remove most of the sand and blend the colors. It turned out quite well, and it leaves a perfect surface for moss to attach to. It also absorbs water, so misting it will help hydrate the moss as well as add to the humidity as it releases the water into the air.

I also suggest that you invest in a fogger if you want to grow mosses. It's the best way to keep them hydrated, IMO. Plus, you don't have to worry about being sure to use rain/distilled/RO water to water the moss.

central newt · #4 03-11-2010, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the ideas, I will try to situate the filter so that water will run down my BG. I also might invest in a small pump to add more water or a waterfall to my BG. Frogsong, I was really wanting a "dirt" looking background above the water line I love the GS texture and would like to use that. Im not really wanting to use sand though, could I use a brick coconut husk fiber such as bed a beast and get the same effect? If so how should I apply it to my BG, silicone maybe? I seem to have overlooked how to get my dirt area to drain, any ideas? I dont really want to drill the glass, could I partition a space behind my BG to stay dry and let the excess water drain out the back of my BG? Then sponge it up... Thanks for the input!

Epiphile · #5 03-11-2010, 01:35 PM

I'd just try and make sure you have a way to siphon the water out of the bottom when it gets too high.

central newt · #6 03-11-2010, 01:40 PM

Thats kind of what I was thinking might not be the most effecient way, but the cheapest and easiest way for me. Thanks for all your input Aaron!
I will be making a trip to St. Louis this weekend im excited to see what pet stores up there offer in the way of paludarium supplies. The stores in my area have VERY little... I will also try to post a picture of my newts here soon, I am having trouble getting my camera to cooperate with shooting through the glass for a close up...

Epiphile · #7 03-11-2010, 01:44 PM

If it helps any, I usually just jam a larger-diameter bit of rigid tubing through my false bottom flush with the top of the substrate. I can then slide a slightly narrower bit of tubing in that and remove the water. Pretty discreet, and it does get the job done.

Edit- I just looked at your diagram. I guess you'll want the water to drain to the back or something and remove it from there. Either way, just ensure the substrate doesn't become waterlogged.

central newt · #8 03-11-2010, 02:02 PM

Aaron do you have any ideas on the coconut fiber background? Do you think the design looks ok?
Is GS watertight? If I used GS and Egg Crate to create my background and shelf, then siliconed the edges to the tank. Would that keep water out from behind my BG and still allow me to drain and siphon excess substrate water to the back?

Epiphile · #9 03-11-2010, 02:22 PM

GS isn't watertight, in my experience.

Have you looked at any riparium setups? This may be just what you're looking for, as it will allow you to use plants right at the waterline without having to worry about diverting excess water elsewhere, as the plants selected will do fine with wet feet. You could incorporate a background with this as well with little difficulty.

froggsong · #10 03-11-2010, 02:35 PM

GS is only water tight if you don't carve it. Once you break the skin it will absorb water like a sponge.

I think you should definitely take the time to read through the stickies. The BG covering method you are talking about with the coco fiber is widely used. I personally don't like it, it's messy, you have to be sure everything is done quickly and right the first time, and it washes away, leaving an ugly mess.

As far as the sand in my method goes, I only did that to add texture and to keep the paint from being shiny at all. You could do the same with any dirt or coco fiber, but it's the paint that mostly remains, not what you sprinkle on top. If you want it to look like dirt and want to try that method, just use brown paint, lol...

Another method you might look into is mixing coco fiber or peat moss with a concrete binder and spreading it on the foam. You have to sand the skin from the foam to make it stick. This dries hard as a rock, but can fall apart if exposed to running water, so you'll want to keep it above the water line and a little bit away from any water features. It looks much more natural that the silicone method, is easier, and doesn't wash away with misting. You can also mix ground moss/moss spores in with the coco fiber or peat and it will eventually grow from the BG as long as there is sufficient humidity. There is a similar method that uses a glue called TiteBond III Ultimate Wood Glue . It mixes and applies the same way, it just uses the titebond instead of the binder to hold everything together. The titebond is waterproof so it can be used around water without falling apart. You can google "flevopol" to see examples of this method. Here's a site that used this method: 40 Gallon Hex & 0.0.4 D Tinctorius frogs

Again, please be sure to at least read through all the stickies to get a basic idea of how the various methods are implemented. Then, if you have any more questions we'd be happy to answer them. Until you've read through everything, we'll just be sending you links, so it's easier if you read through everything first.