10g FBT Paludarium tips

[jlennon]

So I have a 10 gallon simple Paludarium that I set up back in January. I am looking to redo it entirely. The moss has died I'm assuming, its no longer green and more yellowish. I had purchased it in a box from Petsmart and they called it 'Frog Moss'.

Anyway, I think it was drowned, the water seemed to seep up through the hydroballs and into the substrate. I probably had the water level too high as I am inexperienced with Paludarium set ups.

So in my decision to revamp the whole thing, I purchased some eggcrate from Home depot, and really need some tips on construction from this point. I have the basic eggcrate false bottom panel which is about 1/2 the length of the tank and full width so I will have water for my FBTs.

I know I would be better with a larger tank for them, but 10g is what I have at this point.

I have seen lots of builds on this site, but most are vertical builds for arboreal pets. Since Fire Bellie Toads are mostly aquatic, I havent seen too many horizontal tank builds to gather any ideas of construction.

Any tips in a basic false bottom setup in a 10 gallon for FBTs would be greatly appreciated.

[jlennon]

Well I went out and got some new supplies for my eventual design. I picked up some Great Stuff that seems to be the major product used here along with some GE Silicone II if needed.

The idea I have I came across on another forum site:
10 gallon paludarium - Paludariums - Aquatic Plant Central

I know space is limited in a 10 gallon tank, and I liked the idea they had that reminded me sort of a floating land area with lake below. I figured something like this would work well with my Fire Belly Toads and I'm sure they would love the mass amount of water as compared to what they currently have.

The problem I'm having is how to build outside the tank as it is already set up and being used. I've never used GS before and not sure how much I need, I only bought one can thinking I'm not going to need a mass amount for a project similar to the one I have referenced.

Next is how should I paint this. My ideas are to paint the portion that will be underwater. As seen in the link 10g brackish tank I'm leaning toward getting some silicone to just paint it. My other idea was to have the lower portion flat and carved like a brick or rock wall pattern as I thought that would be different.

The top portion I thought would look good with cocofiber embedded into it. I have seen posts going both ways for this:

1) Apply directly after GS is layed out, sticking while wet.
2) Apply after GS is dried, using a coat of silicone as the adhesive.

I am unsure which way would be better, and whether or not any waterproofing is needed on top of black, white, and/or brown silicone used to color the underwater foam.

Any tips/hints/tricks would be greatly appreciated in assisting me in giving my little FBTs a better looking home.

[Angi]

I believe GE II silicone is the one that has the mold/mildew inhibitor? I know that is toxic to fish, I am not sure what it would do in the water for these toads but I have always used GE I 100% silicone for all my fish tanks and stuff i made for in them.

I have read lots of stuff now about the GS, the silicone, and the coco bedding or moss.. from what I've read I think you want to put the gs on, let it fully cure then use the silicone to stick the coco/moss on, the gs expands quite a bit as it cures and you won't be able to shape it very well while it's wet, whereas you can cut it and all sorts of stuff once it's dry =)

I am certainly not a pro in either of these areas so maybe you'll want to wait til someone more experienced comes along, but these are the things I've read lately in my efforts to learn =)

[Epiphile]

Originally Posted by Angi

I believe GE II silicone is the one that has the mold/mildew inhibitor? I know that is toxic to fish, I am not sure what it would do in the water for these toads but I have always used GE I 100% silicone for all my fish tanks and stuff i made for in them.

I hear lots of people say both things about both of these products, but I've heard nothing conclusive. There are lots of hobbyists that use both, and from what I understand they both include the mold inhibitor- it just helps sell the kitchen & bath product better.

Jlennon, I think you're on the right track with this build- keep us posted. You might consider building outside of the tank onto a sheet of rigid material that you can just slide into the tank when it's ready- you'll have to keep the toads out of the tank while you wait for any adhesive you use at that last step to dry, but it's probably the best way to do a good job with minimal disturbance to the inhabitants. You shouldn't need any waterproofing at all- once the foam is cured it will be able to take the water, and silicone is waterproof in and of itself- that's what it's for.

[jlennon]

Is there any other products I can use to paint the foam other than black or white silicone? I haven't seen any other colors and was wondering how I can get other colors.

Like what type of paint is safe to use underwater and will not leech out? Or can I use any type I want and coat that with clear silicone to prevent and leeching into the water.

I do have plenty of eggcrate to work with so I will be using that as the base for my foam application. I have some zip ties and figure that it will work to my design until the foam is applied and creates more structure. I have my design idea in mind, I have to get the step from idea to creation.

I would like it too look like small landmass above with a mini waterfall or river, while below the water I want to carve the foam into brick and maybe an underwater column or two out of brick to look like an old sewer underneath the nature that has taken over above.

My idea sounds a little too big for the tank I have, but I am sure it can be done, now I just have to wait till I get home later.

[beckdg]

for bricks i might be inclined to use foam boards/panels instead. i'd also probably use concrete/grout color to get the red of the brick and maybe some grey/brown/green to give the look of age/wear. to seal that i might use some west systems epoxy paint/clear pond coat/or some acrylic paint and sprinkle some sand in the last coat to avoid a shiny appearance.

one thing you want to keep an eye on is how it fits. unless you take the trim off the top of the tank or split your b/g into 3 pieces for installing it might not be possible to get it in the tank once it's finished... especially if your dimensions are perfect. one good thing is a brick pattern is perfect for hiding cuts into the b/g for application purposes... just cut along the seams.

for your cocofiber do a search for tightbond. that should get you on your way to a method that will stand the test of time much better than silicone.

your silicone should be fine. if it's the kitchens and baths type you might want to give it a couple weeks to cure and leach the inhibitors just in case. ge silicone comes in several colors... they're not always available when you're looking for them but they'll be there eventually.

check out the sticky on moss growing in the terra-plants section. it might give you some insight on what happened to your moss. also, it's very likely you can bring it back to life.

[jlennon]

Damn that stinks. I am not sure if the silicone II that I bought has mildew resistant or not. Probably should just return it to keep my toadies safe from any harm.

If I get non mildew/mold resistant silicone how long before adding water? I don't really have an alternative tank for my frogs, except for a 1 or 2.5 gallon betta tank which is too small for even one temporarily.

And what kind of foam are you suggesting for the brick? Would it be found at a craft store/craft section, or at lowes / home depot exclusively?

I guess for the perfect fit placing it in the tank and applying the GS is the best route to go for the perfect fit. The tank is occupied, but I could also just pick up another at walmart, they sell 10g for like $9 and put it all together first. Any bigger tanks are not as dirt cheap as a 10g... maybe a 20L other than that they sell em in those fish kits.

I will have to see what my exact clearance measurement is for the tank and decide how to fit in the tank without much destruction or 2 or 3 piece background.

[beckdg]

windows and doors should be fine.

24-48 hours or 24-48 hours after you can't smell it... i suggest the latter.

1 In. x 24 In. x 96 In. Tg F250 Board R5 - 270135 at The Home Depot or styrofoam...


you can definitely get either foam at h/d or lowes in the building materials area. the white board you can get at most hobby/craft stores also.

you can silicone your b/g to the back of the tank or affix it to something more rigid such as eggcrate for easy removal. a small tank doesn't give much room for too much on a removable b/g though. it can be done but placement of ledges and such would have to be thought out so-as to not hinder replacing/removing the b/g.

you can get a small sterilite tub for temporary useage for cheaper most likely. 10 gallons aren't too bad though. you could buy one for the project and just move them in when your done... no need to move them twice. a 20 long might not be too bad either.

[Klowne]

Before you spend money on styrofoam, check with local drug stores and maybe a wal-mart. Styrofoam is used as packing material for many products and when we unbox them we just throw it out. That is how I have gotten all of my styrofoam. Unsanded grout works beautifully at creating a rock like look to styrofoam. YOu can get it in just about any color you want and a layer of clear silicone on this would seal it nicely. I used Liquid Nails to affix the eggcrate to the back of the 20G I am building, it was stuck and permanent within 30 seconds of putting it in there.

Also I would just pick up another tank. Sometimes construction doesn't always go the way you want it and you don't want to leave your toads in a temp tank tooooooo long without being 100% sure your tank will be done soon. My 20 should have taken 3-4 days as it's a simple build but has turned into 2 weeks so far. Also then when you are complete you then have a spare tank to do things like: quarantine tank for sick animals, another terrarium/paludarium, house for another pet, bug raising for food..............tons of stuff.

[froggsong]

... I personally would never put a layer of clear silicone on anything to seal it... It doesn't stay clear for very long and will quickly ruin the look of what you've made. it's get cloudy and somewhat blue as it ages (which it does more quickly under water).

If you have the space for it, I recommend you go buy a 20G long tank. They are a really great size for FBTs, and the footprint allows for alot of land AND water. If you do a "flaoting" landmass in a 20G long, think of how much MORE space they'll have! A 20G long is usually about $20, so that's not terribly expensive. Otherwise, I recommend getting a sterilite tub to house them in temporarily. They are easy to clean and sterilize, so they make good QT tanks for any future pets (or your current ones if one gets sick).

I'm sure I have more to add, but I am very very tired and should have been in bed hours ago. I'll try to get back later to see if there's anything I left out.