questions questions

[jargonchipmunk]

Hi there,

Just found this forum today. I can usually be found over at plantedtank or aquaticplantcentral, but my questions today (and possibly for the next month or two if things go right) have more to do with you guys' line of expertise.

1: I've heard *most* arboreal frogs should not be kept in paludariums with large (read: deep) bodies of water. Mine would have a ~10" deep pool of water. Is this okay as long as there is easy ways out and a lot of landmass surrounding the water on three sides?

2: Draining: My tank is not drilled on the bottom. (nor can it be) I've heard you must have drainage for the land side of the paludarium, or the water will build up on that side. Since the terrestrial portion will be raised so high, could I have the back glass drilled low on the back and have the bulkhead connect with a drain on the lowest part of the land, or will I need several such drains connected to the bulkhead? I cannot drain the land into the water. (I COULD, but I'm too picky for that)

3: I hear misting systems are NEEDED for arboreal tree frogs. (at least I read that about dart frogs) Would one of the DIY fogging systems work for any of the other species of tree frog (dumpy, red eye, etc etc) or is there no replacement for a misting system?

4: If tree frogs are going to be a bad option here (I'm hoping you guys can steer me to at least a few that won't drown the first day) what might you suggest? Newt? I'd rather frogs, but we'll see.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. This would be my first full fledged paludarium, and It's been said that I'm a stickler for getting everything right before I start a project.

[Austin]

Originally Posted by jargonchipmunk

Hi there,

Just found this forum today. I can usually be found over at plantedtank or aquaticplantcentral, but my questions today (and possibly for the next month or two if things go right) have more to do with you guys' line of expertise.

1: I've heard *most* arboreal frogs should not be kept in paludariums with large (read: deep) bodies of water. Mine would have a ~10" deep pool of water. Is this okay as long as there is easy ways out and a lot of landmass surrounding the water on three sides?Yes.

2: Draining: My tank is not drilled on the bottom. (nor can it be) I've heard you must have drainage for the land side of the paludarium, or the water will build up on that side. Since the terrestrial portion will be raised so high, could I have the back glass drilled low on the back and have the bulkhead connect with a drain on the lowest part of the land, or will I need several such drains connected to the bulkhead? I cannot drain the land into the water. (I COULD, but I'm too picky for that) I can't tell what you're talking about. But really a simple drainage layer will suffice. As most plants that are used in vivariums don't actually need to be watered with a cup of water, frequent misting are often enough to make the plants flourish.

3: I hear misting systems are NEEDED for arboreal tree frogs. (at least I read that about dart frogs) Would one of the DIY fogging systems work for any of the other species of tree frog (dumpy, red eye, etc etc) or is there no replacement for a misting system?A DIY fog system would work for the other species. You definately do not need a misting system for an arboreal tree frog. Nor most any other species as far as I'm concerned. Spray bottles work wonders, pick one up at ace or any pet store for 3-5$. Fill it with water get some dechlorinator stuff at the petstore and spray everything down several times a day.

4: If tree frogs are going to be a bad option here (I'm hoping you guys can steer me to at least a few that won't drown the first day) what might you suggest? Newt? I'd rather frogs, but we'll see. If I were you, I'd stick with the dumpy tree frogs out of the frogs you mentioned. There brilliant eaters(as long as there not sick) and can be quite funny sometimes. I think a lot of green tree frogs/RETF's are wc and tend to die or get sick easily. That's just my experience, of course there's others that have wonderful experiences with those frogs.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. This would be my first full fledged paludarium, and It's been said that I'm a stickler for getting everything right before I start a project.

My answers are in blue(obviously).

Good luck on the project

[jargonchipmunk]

well I've owned three frogs in my time. All three were several years ago during my impetuous years before I started researching BEFORE buying.

1:Firebelly toad (toad I guess, but he swam a lot lol) neat little guys, but he spent too much time in the water for my application here. I'd rather something that spends at least half or better of its time out of water.

2:Green Tree Frog also neat but mine died, most likely due to something I didn't research well enough.

3:White's Tree Frog - "dumpy" LOVED THIS GUY! He loved climbing all over everything when I let him out, and would always hungrily accept the crickets, etc when fed. He wasn't a very "lively" critter inside the cage (I'm guessing because like most tree frogs he was nocturnal?) but he was a blast to handle.

Those are all the frogs I have ANY experience with.

so... as far as the land portion, could I have anything WITH a dumpy or two? (I.E. terrestrial newts or something?)

[Austin]

Do not handle your frogs at all.. Unless your moving them from one enclosure to another, or if its necessary because the frog needs medical help.

Yes, most tree frogs are nocturnal, and that includes white tree frogs. But that is something that you have to deal with. You can't decide that because hes not moving you should take him out to play. They don't move during the day much, and there comfortable with that. So leave them be besides misting and feeding.

Nope, don't mix species. Especially dumpy frogs, the newts will soon become a snack for them.

[froggsong]

I don't recommend that you mix anything with a white's other than another white's. Like you said, they always hungrily accept anything you feed them... This can often include tank mates small enough to fit in their mouths.

All of the frogs you have kept would do fine with deeper water, as far as I know (I'm as familiar with the white's). Also, golden tree frogs can take to deeper water just fine. Just make sure there is no place they could swim into and get stuck under water. An Island in the middle would be a good idea as well.

I recommend that you do a false bottom setup rather than separating the two and draining your land area by drilling the tank. With a false bottom, the plants help filter the water, and the water from misting is able to drain right through.

To be honest, you would probably be fine with a fogger rather than a misting system, but you'll still need to mist every now and then with a hand mister (I recommend a "garden sprayer" that is pressurized. You can get a finer mist with it and it doesn't give you carpal tunnel, lol). As long as you fog the enclosure often and do it long enough for water to bead on the plants, the frog will have plenty of moisture and the humidity will stay plenty high enough.

If you are really wanting to mix, I have successfully mixed a golden tree frog, squirrel tree frogs, green tree frogs (american), anoles, and FBTs. The most I've had together at once was 1 golden, 3 squirrel frogs, 1 FBT, and 1 anole. The tank I had them in for the longest time was a 40G "breeder". Of course, more height that that is needed for the tree frogs, so I built a custom tank when I got my CWD (which went into the 40G). I've had these animals together for several years. My anole was eaten by ants that got into the cage, and 2 of my squirrel frogs escaped to be eaten by the cat (and the other died of old age). I haven't had any sicknesses or anything, and the squirrel frogs and GTFs used to love to sit on the FBT and the golden. Of course, if the FBTs are not CB, it isn't worth the risk, as the WC specimens are much more toxic.

So, what size tank are you planning?

[jargonchipmunk]

oh I guess I should have mentioned that.

the tank itself is a standard 125gallon

if it were a small tank I would never have considered mixing.

[Austin]

Is it not possible that the frogs just might run into any other species in the tank, once in a while? And if that frog feels threatened, or happens to be hungry, bye bye other species.

[jargonchipmunk]

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