What sort of soil do you use???

tolt · #1 11-30-2009, 03:22 AM

Im very new to keeping frogs and Im in the process of building my first paludarium.

My main concern is about the soil, Im worried about using potting mix because of chemicals but I want some thing that the plants will do well in.

With the way Im setting up my tank the water half will be completely seperate from the land half so I dont have any concerns when it comes to the fishes health just the frogs health.

So I was wondering what everyone else uses???

Kyle The Toad · #2 11-30-2009, 08:59 PM

I just use top soil. Seems to be working pretty well. I think that the majority of vivarium keepers have some sort of mixture that they use though. They usually have layers of different types of soil or substrate. Go to google.com and type in "vivarium" or "terrarium" and read the websites that come up. You'll find several different examples.

tolt · #3 12-01-2009, 03:02 AM

Thanks for the reply Kyle.

I have done loads of google searches and some say potting mix, some say top soil. I was just hoping for some advice from you guys, I can see that your plants and frogs/reptials all look health so I thought I would try to find out what everyone used and make my decision from the advice give.

Cheers

LadyBug · #4 12-01-2009, 10:25 AM

i just picked up some organic soil at lowes for 7 bucks. it's 16qts dry, i think. i have tank mods to do before i can actually use it, but i think it's an excellent option, better value than some of the herp specific stuff(which does have a place!) and still totally natural!
ETA:forgot to add, i did select this for a crested gecko

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froggsong · #5 12-01-2009, 08:04 PM

Even with the organic stuff you have to be a little on the cautious side. Alot of them use urea as a nitrogen source, which is as bad for frogs as it is for fish. If you use something with a high nitrogen content, regardless of the source, you need a top dressing to protect frogs from having their delicate skin burned by the high nitrogen. I'm not saying you can't use it, I'm just saying that you should read the labels and make sure you understand what's actually in it. Most fertilizers can be derived from "organic" sources, it's the levels of nutrients they contain that can be a problem.

As far as potting soil goes, just avoid anything with perlite or vermiculite. Both can stick to a frogs skin and cause sores. They can also be ingested accidentally and lead to impaction. Just using a top dressing isn't sufficient when these are in the mix, you'll likely move plants around some time, and some herps dig, as do some of the common feeders and tank janitors, at least to a certain degree.

Also, be careful to check any bags of ANY soil you buy for holes. You don't want to potentially introduce nasties via eggs laid in your bag of soil before you buy it.

Now, all that said... You want something that is well draining, but can hold moisture, at least for most general applications. You can either do this by purchasing a mix, or you can mix it yourself. I tend to make mixes with alot of milled sphagnum, because it's cheap and it grows plants well. Coco fiber is excellent for retaining moisture, especially the finer milled varieties (as in, no huge chunks and not too many fibers, although mixes with chunks and fibers can work quite well too), and it is also a great growing medium. Adding a bit of safe sand (no calci-sand, no repti-sand, etc... You want sand from the garden center of a store) helps with drainage and keeps the soil from compacting too quickly, but you don't need much of it. I also mix a little aquarium gravel (good sized and I usually have some around) in with my soil, I find that plants just do better when it's there, whether I use a drainage layer or not. You can also mix in some fine bark chips, though I don't.

So, I'd say my best mix is roughly:
1 part sand
2 parts gravel
10 parts milled sphagnum
7 parts coco fiber

I mix all that together, and put it on top of a drainage layer of some sort (if I'm using one) with screen in between. You can top dress the mix with some moss or something to make it look nicer and keep it from drying out more quickly.

I must say that because I am working out the parts in my head, there may be more peat and coco fiber than I said... so if you DO try the mix and it seems to grainy from the sand, add more peat and/or coco fiber. Just remember that the more coco fiber is in the mix, the better it will hold water (this is actually because the bits of coconut shell used to make the coco fiber actually expand as they absorb water, so while it retains moisture well, it is also fairly well draining even by itself).

tolt · #6 12-02-2009, 07:47 AM

Thanks for that advice guys

I think I will stay away from the potting mix and try froggsongs recipe.

I am still finishing off my BG but when its finished and planted I will post some pics.

I cant wait to get it up and running, but I am trying to be patient and do as much research so I get it right the first time.

Epiphile · #7 12-02-2009, 09:04 AM

I generally use a mix of coconut-derived products (the coarse chopped stuff, the fibers, and the finer milled stuff, varied in ratio depending on the application)- they're light and airy, slow to decompose, free-draining (but able to hold plenty of moisture), and best of all, cheap and readily available. The only trouble with the stuff is that it has no nutrients, but many recommended vivarium substrates are similar in that regard.

bareass · #8 12-02-2009, 04:22 PM

i don't keep frongs, but i use organic peat moss. i get it in a big bag from walmart. and gots lots! it grows plants well, and is a food source for most beneficial bug in a tank (red wigglers, spring tails, pill bugs, ect.) they eat it up, and poop out fresh dirt!

froggsong · #9 12-02-2009, 09:21 PM

Worm castings or some organic compost (especially if you compost yourself) would probably be a good addition in a lower layer or mixed in if you are using a top dressing. If you add in any compost, unless you buy it bagged I recommend baking it to make sure there are no critters in it that you DON'T want in the tank, like centipedes. You should be able to buy worm castings in the garden center of various store if you aren't into raising your own worms. That should work well with the mix I recommended but add additional nutrients to the mix. Also, I must add that I water and mist my plants with fish tank water (I run it through a mechanical filter before misting with it). This add more nutrients to the soil and feeds the plants (obviously, lol). I got pretty good growth before I started using the fish tank water, but now I get even better growth.

In my frog/toad/japalura tank, I don't water the plants in my water side myself, but they get nutrients from the FBT poop (they generally go in the water) as the water goes from the top of the tank over the part where the plants are, it's not exactly a waterfall, but sortof... It ends up being sortof like a rain system/drip wall. I used sheets of moss on that side that I got out of the yard, and they have grown a jungle of wild plants that look quite nice.

There is even some grass growing that is putting out seeds! It looks very cool and is a favorite hang out of my golden tree frog. So, that said, even something so simple as a sheet of moss can grow smaller plants that don't need a deep substrate for their roots. The pothos in there is just throwing roots against the glass.

I quite like the look of it.

mikeyd · #10 12-24-2010, 11:06 AM

you all seem to like this coco fiber idea,

i was told by a frogger with 30+ yrs experiance, that coco fiber will eventually be very harmful to frogs.
and that vermiculite, when mixed 50/50 with potting soil, is the safest/ BEST mixture , with a thick cover layer of leaves and moss of course.

my question is , potting soil that says "with plant food" is this ok to use instead of regular potting soil?

i'd really like to hear some feedback on that, scince in this hobby theres way too much misleading and confusing info, cant seem to get any straight answers.