Nw here, already have questions

rudukai13 · #1 07-19-2010, 02:26 PM

First, I just wanted to say I've spent hours on this site, looking at every thread I could find, and I want to extend my feelings of astonishment at the true works of art that have been created. I can only hope to one day be able to create my own enclosure with a fraction of the realism as can be seen in almost every example on these pages. And on that note, I have a few questions as to how to construct a paludarium -

First, I'm very interested in creating an enclosure designed to have a central "island" as the land mass, and I was trying to determine the best way to go about constructing it. My first idea is to take nature's course, and just pile a number of large rocks and pieces of wood together in an aesthetically-pleasing manner, while also creating an area around the top that could be filled with substrate and planted. My concern though is that this type of natural construction wouldn't allow for a solid enough foundation to hold the substrate and plants. Am I correct in this feeling?

My next thought as to how to construct this center island would be to use the oft-referred GS foam, with smaller rocks and wood pieces implanted in it. This would allow for a much better platform for substrate, but I have two main concerns with this method; The first being that it will be an "unnatural" construction (mostly my own personal apprehension to having a tank that appears artificial), and that the GS might not be water-proof and begin to mold or rot after a time being in the water. If anyone could adress this concern, I might be more inclined to take this route.

My last concern has to do with the inhabitants themselves. I would like nothing more than to maintain a small group of dart frogs in this island tank, but I am worried that the depth of the water might pose hazardous to the animals should one decide to venture a bit too close to shore. Obviously the island will be constructed with several points of easy access (branches gently sloping into water, plants in contact, etc.) as to allow easy access to the animals, but would dart frogs even be able to sustain swimming to be able to reach these points? The last thing I want is to put an animal in a position where it would not have the best chance at survival.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated, thank you in advance!

rudukai13 · #2 07-20-2010, 01:18 AM

Here's a few examples of what I'm wanting to do.

Klowne · #3 07-20-2010, 10:05 AM

I'm no dart frog expert by any means but I believe that would be a hazard for them. Better off to just build a land tank for them frogs. A tank like that would be more inclined to house a salamander or newt. Any amphibian that spends time in both the water and on land would be a good inhabitant. There are even snakes that would enjoy an enclosure like that.

Grimm · #4 07-20-2010, 10:40 AM

Yeah I agree. Non of the posted enclosure would be suitable for any darts. They are all paludariums, and not intended to house land based critters. Plus most of the food would be lost due to drowing, instead of inside your frog's tummy.

Typically a dart enclosure will have only a small water feature, with multiple points of entry/exit. Some of the more experienced dart keepers even have said that if they were to rebuild their vivs, that the water feature would only have 1 side exposed to glass (meaning the 3 other sides could be used as exits) Take a look at this video from one of the more experience dart keepers on Dendroboards....At the 50 second mark you can see how a dart will continue to swim up against the glass after it falls in.

YouTube - Dendrobates auratus wrestling to establish dominance

rudukai13 · #5 07-20-2010, 03:16 PM

Interesting...Thanks for the info, I'll have to rethink how I want to design my enclosure then. If the water level were to be lowered to the point where the frogs didn't have to swim to stay above the surface, and a more established land area were created, would that be an acceptable approach?

Grimm · #6 07-20-2010, 03:50 PM

Yes that would be better. Keep in mind of the natural setting where darts are found though. Thick layer of leaf litter, lots of plants, and plenty of microfauna. Only for a certain few dart species do they actually benefit from a running water feature, or feature at all. I believe A. Bassleri is one of the species that does.

Also keep in mind that lots of microfauna is a good way to vary a dart's diet, all while acting as your viv’s full time "maid" service. To help keep microfauna thriving, lots of substrate and leaf litter would be needed. Hard to do in a palu, even if the water is shallow as you suggested. I water feature is definitely a good thing to have, plus its esthetically pleasing, just keep the size in moderation. Even inch taken up by the feature, decreases the usable space of the frogs.

rudukai13 · #7 07-20-2010, 03:58 PM

I'm thinking if i start with a fairly large enclosure to begin with, and build the land from the center out to the point where there's only about an inch or so of space between where the land ends and the wall of the enclosure, that'd provide plenty of room for land mass. I can stack a few pieces of slate up in the center of the tank to create a naturalistic drainage layer, then put substrate down over the top of it and use that for plants, etc. I'll see if I can't find an example of what I'm referring to...

Grimm · #8 07-20-2010, 04:04 PM

That would be pretty cool, and original since I dont ever recall seing anything like that before. Im just wondering what the point of having something like that is though...

Would it have a running water feature, or would it just be a shallow stagnant pool?

rudukai13 · #9 07-20-2010, 04:15 PM

I would love to be able to do a running feature if I can figure one out, but even if not then it will still help aid in humidity for the enclosure. I'd change the water a few times every week though, to make sure it stays fresh for the frogs to drink from.

Grimm · #10 07-20-2010, 04:28 PM

Haha darts dont "drink" per say...They absorb water through their skin. Thats why a moist and humid environment is a necessity.

Ive done a water feature in all my tanks so far...They have been nothing but headaches, even though I continue to create them and plan to do so in the future. Hahaha I'm weird like that.

Definately plan plan plan and research. Trying to seperate the water feature from the substrate could be a bit trickier in the setup you suggested. I am currently building a tank with a water stream running across the viv. It is being a HUGE pain in my A$$ at the moment!