BP with jerky movements?

froggsong · #1 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 09:26 AM

Now that my BP comes out more often and is actually comfortable groping me, I mean slithering all over me (sorry, he was just on his way down my top, lol...), I can see how he moves alot better. His movements seem to be somewhat jerky, and he is clumsy when trying to climb in his tank (maybe his branch isn't thick enough... I'll try to find a new one and see if that helps), he falls down more than I expect him to. Other than the jerky movements and some stuck shed on a few scales, he seems to be perfectly healthy. No evidence of RI, no stargazing or bubbles if you rub up the underside of his head (he will actually let me do that now).You guys that have BPs, do your guys move this way, or is it just mine? I'm not terribly worried, I just want to make sure there isn't something I need to keep an eye out for.

Thanks guys

On a happy note, he coiled around my arm and chilled for a long time earlier.

First time! I've gotten him half curled before, but he never done it on his own and relaxed on me. I'm so glad he is comfortable. I just love it, it makes me so happy. I know, I'm a dork! It just touches me in a profound kind of way that he trusts me. I went through such a long period of time where I thought of giving him up because I thought I wasn't giving him the best care or something, and now everything is totally different and it just makes me feel awesome.

Has anyone else ever felt that way about one of their herps?

SnM_Man · #2 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 11:49 AM

i dont mean to scare you but it kinda sounds like it could be IBD ... if u put the snake on her back does she have trouble righting herself ??.... ud better check out this link to an excellent write up on the condition and probbly schedual a vet check up ...

www.reptileforums.net - IBD (Inclusion Body Disease)2

froggsong · #3 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 04:05 PM

Ah... No, it's nothing like that at all. He's just a little twitchy. He always has been, it is just a little more pronounced now. He can right himself just fine, and he doesn't move anything like the snakes in the vids I watched. He slithers well, he does not stargaze, and there is no discharge from the mouth or anything like that. He is actually MORE active now than he has ever been, so I don't think he is suffering from a rapidly degenerative disease. I DEFINITELY appreciate you bring this disease to my attention, and I will definitely keep an eye out for any other symptoms.

As for falling off the branch, I think he is either just a bit clumsy, or can't get enough purchase on the wood, as it is smooth over the surface that he always falls off of. As soon as I can find another branch that is thicker and will fit in his tank, I will just give that one to the beardie and give him a new one (after thoroughly disinfecting it, of course...)

I've had him since the beginning of July, and he hasn't been exposed to any other snakes other than my corn, and never directly then. I always wash my hands between handling the snakes, and I didn't see anything about that disease affecting corns... No mites, no ticks, ever since I have owned him. I check regularly. Poor shedding is due to humidity issues. From what I understand, this disease strikes very quickly, especially in pythons...

I'm considering that he could possibly have some sort of vitamin deficiency. I can't afford to buy feeders in bulk atm, so I have been purchasing from the pet store, and I have noticed the size and quality of these feeder rodents declining, whichever store I purchase them from. My hubby wont let me breed, even though I would be much more comfortable with being able to control the quality of my feeders 100%. Since the feeders may be suspect, I think, if there is a real problem at all, that a vitamin deficiency is the most likely culprit. I think I will pick up some vitamin powder (or a liquid if that is possible) and dust his rodents to be sure he is getting all the vitamins he needs.

LadyParvati · #4 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 06:05 PM

I guess we could understand better if we could see a video of your BP, Megan. If you're like me, though, you don't have a video camera. *sigh*

Jason · #5 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 06:35 PM

Look for Moon drops or Solar drops. Liquid vitamins, i used to get them for my green iguanas years ago. cant see why you cant adapt these to feed rodents seeing the mice you are feeing your BP are old enough to feed on there own. Never checked if these would be good for snakes but who knows.

Heres a cool link i came across a while ago. some interesting reading.

Kidney failure/metabolic bone disease/ vitamin D supplements in reptiles and amphibians (lizard, snake, turtle, tortoise, frog, salamander)

SnM_Man · #6 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 09:52 PM

does anyone no or have a link to a webpage that outlines specific nutritional needs of BPs ??

beckdg · #7 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 09:57 PM

idk about supplements for a snake... never had a problem that needed any... never heard it suggested... never heard of it practiced... best to check to see if this is a bad idea or not... maybe a vet???

got a vid frog?... like lady said it will really help if you posted a link to one you put on you tube temporarily or the likes. any digital camera w/video will really help... quality does not matter much as we are looking for movement not details in pattern.

bp's are not typically climbers and as such should be supported in minimum 2 spots when doing so. several branches or 1 solid piece that branches out may be a better idea.

beckdg · #8 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 10:09 PM

like mr wibbles?:
YouTube - buckninetynine's Channel

LadyParvati · #9 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

does anyone no or have a link to a webpage that outlines specific nutritional needs of BPs ??

I recently attempted to find research providing info about BPs' nutritional needs. I found info about the nutritional values of rats and mice at different stages of life, but zilch about BPs' actual needs. I conducted my search through my university's access to a broad (global) scientific database and feel fairly confident that I found what there was to find--nothing.

It's very frustrating, as I would really like to know what BPs actually NEED, especially as snake keepers argue about the relative merit of rats and mice, with proponents on both sides. The nutritional value of each at different stages varies, and more is not necessarily better. Indeed, more of some nutrients could actually be worse for a particular animal.

Here is a link to the most recent research I was able to find regarding nutrient values for rats & mice (among other prey items):

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/zoo/Who...nal02May29.pdf

Now if someone would just do the research on what optimal values are for BPs . . .

JohnEDove · #10 (**permalink**) 01-07-2009, 11:56 PM

I am sorry if this seems to come out wrong guys but facts are facts.
Rodent eating snakes get all the nutrition they need from being fed rodent prey of the appropriate size on a routine schedule. It does not matter if it is a Ball Python, Boa Constrictor, Corn Snake or Bull Snake, they are all the same as far as nutritional requirements go.
Rats are slightly more nutritious than Mice over all but Mice will supply everything your rodent eating snake needs if it is not large enough for rats, aka a hatchling.
Appropriate size is equal in circumference to the largest circumference of the snake. Slightly larger, 25%, is also fine but some snakes will regurge prey that exceeds this.
They need no other minerals, vitamins or supplements of any kind.
If you would like to see your snake take on an orange tint raise your own rodents and include carrots as a regular part of their diet. The Beta Carotene in the carrots will be absorbed by the snake in time giving them an orange tint. The tint will fade away when the snake is no longer being fed Beta Carotene enhanced rodents.

Sorry that I cannot address the jerky problem but a customer of mine who purchased a yearling Corn had the same problem with a BP. On consulting a number of BP breeders the best we could come up with was that it had some kind of neurological disorder that was not related to the Wobbles demonstrated in all Spider Balls at some stage of their life. If the BP in question is a Spider then it is now developing the wobbles a genetic neurological disorder of that morph.
From what I understand there are other genetic disorders associated with a few other morphs but not being a BP person I can’t remember which morphs have which problems.