CWD Vive - 40G breeder w/eggcrate topper

[froggsong]

Ok, so I got tired of waiting to do this, and Riku (my CWD) has been getting healthier and is eating well now, so I decided yesterday to jump in and get it going. I took pictures throughout the process, but I took most of them on my phone and for some reason can't get them off, so I'll have to leave out the earliest pics until I can get that figured out.

I started with the eggcrate topper I made a couple of months ago, and I sprayed the GS foam "Big Gap Filler" onto it. Before spraying the foam, I made sure that the topper was laying flat against some wax paper, that way I could keep it from expanding too much on the back and I would be able to peel off the paper easily. A tip that I've posted before, If you have a large area to cover with a can of GS, shake it longer that it says on the can, it makes it expand more.

I did the back piece first, then let it cure for an hour before starting the sides. When I did the sides, I let it cure for about 30 minutes before flipping it over to do the other side. I found that this made the side facing down expand outward more than it normally would.



I set the topper on the cage to get a better idea of how it looked, and then I determined the best place to put her branch. I didn't want the branch to be permanently foamed in, so I wrapped it in grocery bags on the ends where it would be in the foam. It's important that you do that loosely or the bags will keep it from expanding into the nooks and crannies of the wood. You want it to be as tight a fit as possible so the branch doesn't fall out.



I foamed around the branch and let it cure some, then I pulled the topper off (VERY carefully) with the branch still in it's holding cups and set it on the floor so that I could work on the pond. At this point went ahead and foamed in some places to attach broms and a couple of planters.

Fast forward to when the foam was cured enough to remove the branch temporarily:



I was going to use her plastic tub pond, but I didn't like how it looked, and I didn't like how much room it took up in the tank. I took a break to do some brainstorming and got on the forum. I was looking at Ozymandias' thread about his new project, and I noticed that the substrate barrier in the vertical tank looks like it is just made of GS. So I thought I'd go see if I could work something like that out.

I needed to be able to put Riku back into her tank when I was done for the night, so foaming directly into the tank and potentially needing to seal the edges with silicone weren't really an option. So I decided to try and make a drop in pond out of the foam. I placed her logs where I wanted them and marked around the edge of the one that will butt up to the pond so that I didn't make the pond too big. I wish I had had a way to work with a mold, but I didn't, so I taped some wax paper to the sides and bottom of the tank and started foaming. I did the bottom with a good thick layer of foam so it wouldn't leak, and I did the best I could on the sides, which leak like a sieve...




After I was done foaming, I let it cure for a while (this took a really long time because I had to let each layer cure a bit before I could do the next higher one. I didn't have anything unpacked that I could use to hold the front wall up, so I couldn't do multiple layers without it falling over), then I pulled it out and checked for holes. I took it in the bathroom and filled it with water in the tub... I think it would make a great pasta strainer, lol.... So I took it back to my work area and held it up to the light and filled each hole I could see with the little bit of foam left in the can. I apparently missed some... I placed in it the tank (after covering the patches with wax paper to keep them from sticking to the glass) so that the foam in the patches would expand into the holes and not outward, and I filled it again. It still leaked... I'll have to try to patch it again. I'm not sure what I'm going to patch it with though... I may have to make a trip to the hardware store.

I put her tree, her logs, and some broms into the tank and hooked up her lights so that she could chill for a while.



She really likes it. She colored up so beautifully in a matter of minutes, and even ate a handful of isopods. The tank is holding heat really well, even though I haven't foamed the front piece of eggcrate yet and the top screen isn't entirely covered.

I may start covering the BG today, or I might wait until I can get some Titebond III Ultimate Wood Glue. It is supposed to be more waterproof than the concrete bonder (which is what I'd be using if I start it today). I'm definitely planning on getting the pond fixed and putting the substrate in. That poor tree needs out of it's little pot... I also need to figure out a better system for the door (I'll most likely replace it eventually).

I'm not sure yet what I'll cover the outside of the topper with. Whatever I choose will be thin and lightweight.

Anyway, I hope you guys like it. Let me know if you have any questions.

I'll keep taking pictures as I work on it so I can update the thread.

EDIT: I added a couple of pictures. It's the only ones I've been able to get off the phone so far.

I'd also like to add that this is NOT a permanent home for her. This is a temporary home until I can get an entertainment center to convert. This isn't big enough for a full grown CWD to live in permanently.

[boabab95]

CWD are aloud to stay in 40 g???? I think i'll get one then!!!!! would it work with a 40 long??? also, great so far, keep us updated!!!!

[froggsong]

It isn't about what they are "allowed" to stay in, it's about then being able to move around in their enclosure. 40G is not appropriate for a full grown CWD. Males need more space than females. My female is full grown and smaller than normal because she goes off her feed so much. She is about 2 feet long, tops, counting the tail (I haven't measured her in a while, but I doubt that she is even that long... Probably more like 20 inches). She needs an enclosure that is 4 feet long by 2 feet wide (front to back) and at least 4 feet tall. So what I have for her still isn't big enough. It is not, however, only 40 gallons (and gallon measures are useless for reptiles, you need to go by dimensions, this is a "breeder" tank, meaning wider from front to back, which is essential), it is a 40G tank with a topper of equal size (maybe a bit taller) on top. If it were all a glass tank, it would be a "90G" tank or so. CWD aen't suited to live in glass tanks. They need something far larger at minimum than just a glass tank can provide. There is a HUGE aquarium that I have had my eye on at the pet store, it's 3 feet deep from front to back and 6 feet long. I think it's about 3 feet tall as well. That's not even big enough. You'd still have to make a topper for something that big. Size requirements are suggestions of minimum tank sizes. If you were to keep a CWD in a 40G tank for it's whole life, that would be cruel. You wouldn't want to live in something that was barely longer than you and not even as tall as you were long, would you? It would be like a human living in a closet they couldn't come out of for their whole lives.

I'm sorry to take this stance twith you, but I don't want someone thinking that a 40G is ok for a CWD. And the "CWD are aloud to stay in 40 g???? I think i'll get one then!!!!!" just scares me a bit, because I feel like I have misrepresented their needs by posting this build. I may have forgotten to write in THIS thread that this is temporary... I started posting about the build here :CWD paludarium - 40G breeder w/eggcrate topper before I started the log.

I will most likely be moving my japaluras into this tank when I am able to get the CWD something bigger. I had everything to build her a nice big cage but my previous landlord would not allow me to build it, so I used the wood for the beardie enclosure. It has been wrong of me to keep her in something so small for so long and it has most likely contributed to her poor health.

I guess what I am saying is that in no way should a CWD be kept in a 40G tank for their entire lives, not even if it DOES have a nice tall topper on it.

[boabab95]

srry i didn't mean it that way... i just meant if i add a top to mine and put the CWD in there for a week or two while i get a bigger cage, i could... although i'd probably get the correct size in the first place... and i was referring to a juvenile... sorry about that i wasn't wording it right...

[froggsong]

For those of you that may not have seen it, I added a couple of pics to the first post.

[froggsong]

Do you guys want more pictures of the process here? I'm not sure if anyone is reading this, and if not, I'm not going to stop to take pictures when I work on it more this week...

Just let me know if anyone is following, ok?

And boa, I just wanted to let you know, I was only trying to be clear (it's how I always try to word my posts), not trying to fuss at you or anything. When I reply to something, I just try to make sure that I am understood the way I mean to be, and it (more often than not, it seems) is apparently coming off in the wrong way... I'm to the point where I don't want to post anything anymore because I'm afraid that someone is going to think I'm being mean or rude when I'm only trying to make sure I am understood... So, if anyone has been wondering why I haven't been around as much, that's why.

[Deacon240]

I'm reading! Would love to see how this is going to go.

[jpstod]

I would love too see pictures of the Finished project..

If someone does not take the time toread all the post and realize that this is a "temp" tank then too bad for them.

This is a Unique Ideal that many people have considered doing but few have.

It is a Viable resource for people wanting to expand a Tank Upwards without replacing a complete tank.

[froggsong]

There are a couple of things I wish I had done differently...

One, I peeled the wax paper off the back too soon (as usual).
Two, I should have anchored the egcrate to the tank frame while it was curing, since it shrunk some and warped a bit (because I peeled the wax paper off too soon, as usual).
Three, I pulled the wax paper off the back too soon.
Four, the way I tried to make the branch removable worked pretty well before the foam shrank, now it isn't quite right and is too loose.
Five, I peeled off the wax paper too soon.

So, it's REALLY IMPORTANT that you don't jump the gun and peel the wax paper too early...

I haven't covered the foam yet, but I did do some work on it today. I put the substrate in, and I elected to go without a FB or drainage layer (though I did put a layer of gravel right under the tree), since this will be somewhat temporary and the pond is separate. I doubt I will do much watering after I get the soil to the moisture level I want because the bubble stone in the pond empties nearly half of it every couple of days. I'll be doing a couple of mistings a day to keep the humidity up and to mist the moss that isn't right next to the pond (such lovely moss, I really love it, and it's the season when moss is putting out spores, so I'm almost guaranteed to have spores in the moss I transplanted).

I didn't take a picture yet, but I will go take one shortly since there are people actually reading. I really like the way the bottom looks, but the top looks pretty much the same as the other pics. I was able to create a hide for her under the log that is the perfect size, and she can dig in there safely without worry that the log will fall on her. She has lots of climbing room, but not as much floor space, but that's perfect. She shouldn't be sitting on the ground constantly. She's a tree dragon.

One thing that is going to become a priority very quickly is the door. It is temporarily hinged to the eggcrate with zip ties, and held shut with bent paper clips that press into the foam on the sides. This isn't going to work for long, because she can, and has escaped. I don't want her to be kitty food, you know. The dog is fine with her, but the cat would probably try to play with/eat her. I'm thinking of siliconing two small hinges to the front tank frame and having the door open down, rather than up. I should be able to have it fold completely against the front of the tank so that I have unobstructed access into the tank. I can have it latch somehow to the eggcrate on the top. I'm still not sure about securing the sides...

So anyway, I'll go take some more pics and then post them for you guys.

[jpstod]

Thanks for the Update.

I think that having the door Fold down is a better Idea. More out of the way when you do open it...

Have you decided what to cover the Outside With Yet?
Are you gonna do the whole side or just the "topper" portion?