Canada Day Weekend Build! : Clay Background Method

[Grimm]

Greg, I meant Calcium Bentonite substrates...My bad...And Edited

Also, I don’t mean to say that the substrate is solely made from clay...I believe the approximate amount is roughly 25-30% bentonite. I read that people let a large flat piece of clay dry up, and then they break it up and mix it into the substrate so it can degrade over time. As you can see from Reclycled's link, this fad has been going on for some time and there seems to be quite a lot of research put into it. I definitely don’t know much about it, and haven’t even gotten 1/4 of the way through that thread. But the reason the switch to clay based substrates is happening, is because dart enthusiasts are trying to mimic the natural environment from where they are naturally occuring. Clay based substrates may not be optimal for plant growth, but they help with sustaining substrate micro fauna and to replicate the natural environment. Because of this, many tanks don’t even have an abundance of plants rooted in the substrate. They are typically mounted epiphytically and then the substrate is solely covered in leaf litter. If you were to look at a jungle floor, it would look very similar to this and this is what everyone is trying to replicate. I’m not a fan of this “style” and don’t plan of setting up any of my vivs in this manner, but I can see why everyone is doing it. With my current and future tanks, I’ll be doing a mixture of the old and new ways of thinking. I’ll have sections of substrate covered in moss for aesthetics, and other sections covered with multiple layers of leaf litter to provide breeding ground for micro fauna. I think meeting in the middle will satisfy my own need for an aesthetically pleasing viv, and the darts needs at the same time.

We could probably go on about this for a long time, but I think it’s best to make another substrate thread if it is to continue since this is just a simple build thread

On that note, I have made very little progress on my tank....I’m still trying to make the grapevine water tight so that it doesn’t leak into my substrate area. It is really driving me up the wall haha. I picked up a fairly descent sized chunk of java moss last night, I am still planning on checking out some broms from a fellow frogger in town, and I am about to send a letter down to Florida so it can be sent back up to me full of magnolia leaves. Hopefully I can have it fully planted within 1-2 weeks. I’ll keep you guys posted on any visual progress as it happens!

And one more thing....I have a pyramid of clay sitting inside my viv. I’ll be letting it cure for another 1.5 days, then I will have water running over it to test how well this kitty litter clay mixture can withstand being constantly wet.

[Greg H.]

Originally Posted by froggsong

I MUST point out that that is NOT our average member. NOT AT ALL. Have you watched his youtube "videos" that he links to so rudely? Have you paid any attention to his attitude? As far as I can tell, that kid must be like 12 or 13. People like that, that are going to do what they want regardless of what people tell them is safe, are NOT the people to base arguments like this on. Only an idiot is going to read what that kids says and say to himself, "Hey! That guy really knows his stuff! I'm going to do what he did!".

I apologize for the tone of my post, and I assure you that I am not being argumentative, that kid just irks my nerves something awful. It's people like that that give the hobby a bad rep, IMO. It's just that kind of thread that I hate to let stick around on the forum, but unless I have a legitimate reason to delete it, all I can do is try to correct it for future readers.

I agree that he is not an average member ( no I didn't check the video's - I was sure about what I might find ), but I did consider him an example of some of the way I see some people approaching the issue ( although I will grant that he was a little extreme ), and while it is the kind of thread that can be annoying, it does serve a purpose if people are willing to learn from it.

I have PM'ed Grimm about using some of his posts to build a General Substrate & Background Discussion thread, in which we can move some of your questions about the use of various Background materials and hash out some of the debate without cluttering up his build thread.

[froggsong]

Sounds good to me. If he'll just post a link here in the thread, I'll get the discussion posts moved soon.

[Grimm]

Bahaha I thought Greg was gonna make it....I dont even know how to move posts around and link another thread with this one. It isnt a huge deal, we can chat about it here. But for future reference it might be easier to find all the good clay substrate/background info in a seperate thread, rather then my experimental build thread.

I know I made that "substrate notes" thread a few weeks ago. It might be the place to add all this good info since I already have links that were posted in this thread again.

[froggsong]

lol, you can't move posts. Only me and beck (and Marty, of course). I'll set up a new thread for it later, then move all the posts. I'll link to it here so that people who are coming here for the discussion can go there straight from here.

[Greg H.]

Originally Posted by Grimm

Bahaha I thought Greg was gonna make it....

Working on it

As a non-admin or mod it just takes a little longer, and is not quite so neat.

[beckdg]

since we're moving this (or froggy is)... my criteria was basically safe, cheap, works under the conditions i was looking for... that's it. i even balked at sodium bentonite but i'll look into that when the time comes.

i have made it to the end of the dendroboard thread... almost 3 times. there's sooo many conversations that break off in it though and i seem to want to follow all of them or none of them. that's probably my fault for checking it out tired time after time.

the crayola, well... that's not the first time... won't be the last time... we'll probably never hear the end of the story or see pics of the outcome (haven't yet)... i can only assume it's not the greatest idea and most members won't see that and go... "WOAH, that guy disregarded all that advice and things worked out GREAT!"

to touch on the kitty litter again... people have used it/AS/turface/etc. quite a few times without adverse reactions. that's what we're into this for in many cases... we don't want to do everything exactly the same as everyone else. more options are a good thing... so long as they're safe. it's up to the hobbyist to work everything out after that. anybody who's just going to stuff a tank full of clay... well... umm... something about intelligence and common sense (you get the point).

[Greg H.]

Here is the link to the other thread:

Substrate/Background material discussion

[Grimm]

K quick update...

So apparently no one at the pet store, or 3 of the forums I am a member of mentioned that Grapevine is NOT recommended for vivaria. I’ve had the tank running the entire week, with regular misting and it already has 2 different types of mold blooming all over it. I boiled and baked it before adding it to the viv; it’s just that the wood does terribly when constantly moist.

So this weekend I will be exchanging that piece with a piece of Mopani, then I will be adding more vines, moss, and newly acquired broms into the viv.

I am also doing a wetness durability test using a large clump of clay that I let sit/cure inside my viv over the past 3 days. So far it is holding it's shape to a constant flow, however it has flaked a little bit and the outside has become very soft. Also, it seems that some of the peat is washing off of the clay and exposing some of the clay pellets that did not mix 100%. I'll be keeping it going overnight to see how well the rest holds up. As of right now, I do not suggest using this in constant contact with water.

I'll keep everyone updated as it comes along this weekend.

[beckdg]

i looked twice at that before but you mentioned something about making it water tight. i guess i assumed you new better, sorry.