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  #11  
Unread 02-09-2012, 04:22 PM
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@no694terry: I'm glad my comments are helpful

I do have several concerns regarding your current build though, as Enfinite5 pointed out....


Have you considered how you are going to do your soil? You have foam directly on the floor and no false bottom setup, so how exactly are you going to drain it?

In my experiences, what happens in these closed setups is that you need to have a well-draining soil (and a drainage layer or false bottom for the water to go to). You end up watering much more often, but since it DRAINS through the dirt the water will not actually stay there (otherwise you get root rot/dead plants with a quickness)

Also, how do you plan on planting your back wall? You have not placed any planters there ahead of time....this leaves your only option as epiphytes

I also agree that the water temp will easily be warm enough. I don't see any particular need to keep it at 70F++ esp if its going to be very shallow or "watering" water only (no pools/no fish). Unless you have need for warm water for aquatic reasons (which again, don't seem to be here) I can almost guarantee you won't need to heat your water.



Also, in high humidity setups your front glass will have dew/droplets all over it and be entirely invisible in no time. You need to setup internal air-circulation (most ppl use cpu fans) to prevent this. HOWEVER, be careful as you want it to be internal air circulation and not bringing air in/out of the system (otherwise your humidity plummets).

I don't have any huge 100% humidity tanks so I have no experience with using internal air circulation, but on my 29-gallon I use 2 fans blowing ACROSS the top (between the lights and top of the tank) to prevent heat buildup from my 2xT8 bulbs (otherwise the tank jumps to 95-100F quickly!)

I don't wish to be negative but you may want to slow down on the build and really plan it all the way to the end before you proceed or you will end up wasting a lot of time and money.

IMMEDIATE CONCERNS:
-drainage
-how/what will you plant
-what soil composition are you planning to use? what layers?
-why are you concerned about heating the water if you will have no aquatic section?
-titebond+coco method works great for foam backgrounds, but I have no experience (and do NOT trust it) to hold under PERMANENT submersion (the foam will be fine, but the coco will come off and expose the white). I personally paint my foam that will be in high-water areas with a coat of DRYLOK first for extra security (and that way you can color it easy)

-the foam is *NOT WATERPROOF* although it is water-resistant. if you wish to put in a water feature you NEED to have it planned/setup nowish. There are many methods used in making foam-waterfeatures....the basic method is to coat it in concrete (and then soak it for 4-6 weeks until it is FULLY cured otherwise it will affect the pH of your water and hurt your plants/animals) OR you can concrete it then coat it in an epoxy (but epoxy is pricy; i use US composites 635 3:1 epoxy...about $95/gallon with shipping)


FEW OTHER TIPS:
-I use silicone (but Titebond also works). You need DRY and i mean DRY coco powder (not the husks, you want the fine dirt / coco coir). Many people also use Xoluene or Toluene to "water down" the glue. DO NOT USE OTHER "Thinning" PRODUCTS AS THEY WILL NOT EVAPORATE TO BE 100% SAFE.

Mix the glue/coco and then just mash it onto the background. I have NO experience with this method.

What I do is use SILICONE (GE SILICONE I is the safe bet; I have used GE SILICONE II in many builds without problems but again most of my builds are NOT 100% frog setups so that is a consideration). I like GE II because it comes in many colors and the brown color really helps hide the foam even if some of the coco comes off.

If using silicone, you want to apply it to the foam and spread it around nicely with your hand (use gloves!!) and then MASH a huge chunk of coco coir into it (use way more coco than you will need). Work in SMALL AREAS as the silicone dries fast (I work in roughly 6-8" squares at a time).

Alternative is the clay method; I personally HATE this method because if your misting is too much or too little it causes the clay to either crack ro crumble.



Also, don't use expandable foam for the ENTIRE background you will use a fortune. First get thick insulation silicone (I like 1" personally) and a hot glue gun. Cut the 1" silicone into chunks (you can hot glue multiple pieces together to make it thicker, as needed) and then only foam on the "surface" of that for texture....saves you a ton of money on foam!


@Enfinite: a FOGGER can replace a Mister, but I would believe you still need one or the other for nearly all (esp larger) setups. hand-misting works too...but again on a larger setup I'd really lean ttowards the misting system; also because of the CONSISTENCY of a system i find you get way better growth

Last edited by EvilLost; 02-09-2012 at 04:32 PM..
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  #12  
Unread 02-09-2012, 06:22 PM
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I agree with evillost. With out a false bottom your plants with rot very fast and die. This build might almost be better for a desert animal or something where you can just cover this all in sand.

I agree that you need something to keep the humidity up fogger or mister. I still give my tanks a light misting once a day.
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  #13  
Unread 02-09-2012, 07:10 PM
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evillost, thanks a ton, very helpful. the drainage i had the foam on bottom higher than water level and was going to put gravel down the the shagaham whatever and the my soil mix. a false bottom is still possible. just have to cut the foam out. no biggie. planting areas up above are similar just carving into the thick areas of foam with drain holes leading down.

i will look into fans as well as the misters.

for soil mix i haven't nailed one down yet. was kinda waiting to get it all together let it dry out, get the waterfall running and go from there.

water heating is out
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  #14  
Unread 02-11-2012, 05:21 PM
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I have heard of others carving out from the foam background to make planting spots; this is a method I have not tried myself, but it should work fine....just make sure to poke a few drain holes in the foam as it is water-resistant so some water buildup may occur (but as i said, its not waterproof so it should drain down ok)


your soil mixture is actually VERY important. I have personally lost more plants due to erroneous soils than anything else.

It depends on the humidity of the setup, frequency of watering, types of plants, location of plants, amount of heat (causes evaporation of water), amount of drainage in the setup...etc etc....many important factors.

Most basic viv soils are a mix of coco-coir, shredded sphag, orchid bark or other aeration item, ground WOOD coals (NO fertilizers on ANYTHING, no chemicals etc; you want neutral soil).

The animals will naturally fertilize the plants, you don't need to clean anything over time except some spot maintenance.
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  #15  
Unread 02-14-2012, 11:34 AM
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last nights status. Decided to use Krylon Fusion to coat background rather than the hole thing in coco. There will still be patches here and there but painting ssemed more economic for the bulk of the background. That will be tonight, lets see if my artistic skills are up to the challenge.

still a long ways from anything living in there.



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  #16  
Unread 02-14-2012, 02:19 PM
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you used KRYLON SPRAYPAINT for the inside of your tank?


I'm like 99% sure that stuff is TOXIC.....
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  #17  
Unread 02-14-2012, 02:30 PM
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hope not. I got the krylon fusion idea from this forum. And i just checked the Krylon website and they claim all products are non-toxic once dry. I bought camo-colors. might get frisky and sprinkle eco-earth on it after i spray it. I got a bag of the non-compressed stuff just to have.
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  #18  
Unread 02-14-2012, 02:40 PM
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thats interesting....but just fyi non-toxic to humans does not mean non-toxic to frogs.

I dunno for sure, but I def wouldn't use it in my tanks (esp not closed/frog tanks). Perhaps call the manufacturer but they prob can't give any more info than is on the MSDS.
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  #19  
Unread 02-14-2012, 08:37 PM
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well its painted and looks great in my opinion. i've read a lot of people using the krylon to seal things in there tanks with no problems so i guess its a gamble. i have to cut a cover to cover over the pump behind waterfall. im going to let it air out a few more days. i also set the glass in to keep my 2 year old out of the gravel until im ready to finally seal it up.

left to decide/get:

-soil mix
-animals? most likely anole's
-plants
-lighting
-air circulation

and build a base to get it up off ground and a canopy to cover fogger and lighting.



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  #20  
Unread 02-14-2012, 09:29 PM
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The glass may slow down the evaporation just for consideration.

I have not heard of users using krylon. Be wary of whose builds you follow, make sure they are users who have established tanks. It can look great on day 1 but its about long term. Also check the dates, the hobby has evolved alot.

Also, due to humidity/water in tropical setups chemicals that may be safe for desert may not be safe for wet environments. Another thing to keep in mind.

I get a better idea of what you are doing now. I would say desert setup for bearded dragons that'd be sick
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