Bulkhead/Sump Questions.... Careful It's A Big One!!

[theamish]

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Sorry I cant get the image to load right on the page, but if you click the link it will take you right to my gallery.


Hey everyone, as the title says I am going to attempt my first BH/Sump install, I wanted to pick everyones brain and open my design up to everybody to see if it had any major flaws or if there was anything I should do differently. If you clicked the link you will see it's a very basic design, I'm just new at this and wanted to double check.


1) What size should I make the bulkhead(BH)? I was planning on using a BH with one of those cone screens on it that you see on all the aquarium sites.

2) If the water level is 5”, where should I drill the BH thru to be safe(in case of power failure) but to also get adequate filtering. I know it has to be high enough so that the sump can handle all the water above it, if that is true as long as I have it above the middle of the water(which is 18.7g) then I should be fine using a 10g tank right?

3) I was thinking of putting control valves on both the BH & Return to control the flow of water because it will be feeding into a waterfall/stream feature, will that be a problem? Also this would allow me to close them easily in case of emergency or if I had to swap out a pump or something.

4) What types of filter media are the best/most effective to use?

5) What size should the return line be? I’ve read it should be the same as BH but no less then half, is that accurate? Or should it be the exact size of the output of the pump?

6) Lastly, I’m sure this one is simple, but how do I do a water change from the sump? Should I just use a siphon or is there a more automated way to do it, like a drilled in drainage pipe with a control valve?



Before anybody says it, I’m sure I don’t really need to go thru all this trouble for 18g of water but the design I’m incorporating into the tank makes filter placement and maintenance a real problem. Plus I want to do this for the experience so when I do a larger tank I know what I’m doing!



Thanks Everyone!!

[froggsong]

wow, you've thought this through alot better than I have, but I'm not TO that point yet. I'll have to watch this thread to make sure I don't make any mistakes when i put mine in.

[Athen]

if i could see your pics to get a better scope of what you are intending to do i could offer some better advice but since im currently at work i am unable to see the pics and when i get home ill look at them and give a little more advice.

but as far as what i can gather you are intending to drill some holes in the side of your tank to allow your water to drain out into a sump correct? if this is so you would want your return hose to be about the same size as your supply line or at least make sure it has the same amount of flow as what your putting in in order to keep your water table level

IMO the control valves are a great idea

and as far as changing the water in the sump id say having a ball or globe valve at the bottom of your sump what id like to do is set it up so i can hook a garden hose up to it so you can refill it

[Jason]

(1) You need to pick a pump that suits the volume of water you wish to turn over per hour, if you want to turn over the entire volume of water 10 times per hour a pump rated at 180gph is required, with that in mind you need to find a bulkhead what would handle this kind of outflow and not cause the pump to work to hard, A 1/2" to 3/4: BH should handle this kind of flow ( double check required ), but your return has to be the same size BH and pump but keep in mind not alot of people have had much luck with the 2 pump 2 valve method and tend to lean twords a standpipe ( gravity feed line ) and single return, reason being is that if one pump fails your in trouble. With a Durso your water only drains past the lip and no further..

( 2 ) At 5" water depth your BH should be as low as possable without getting to close to the solicone seal, you will need a solid 1" to avoid a brittle pane and cracking while drilling or fitting you BH, and remember you have to not only account for the entire volume of the water above the sump ( in this case the bottom lip of the BH )as well as the amount of water in the sump + the volume within the lines that go in and out as thay will drain back. Half of 18.7 is 9.35 gallons + the volume of each line we will juat say is 1/2 a G each totaling 10.35 gallons.remember the water will have to fill the lines before it reachs the sump and main tank, this 1/2g in and then 1/2g out can be tricky. i hope this makes sence.

( 3 ) Control valves are good if you take the time to set them just right and hope one avoids a clog, been there done that lol, You can go from a return thats pushing 20gph to 1/4ghp in no time if not kept in check get a life jacket for your pets heh

( 4 ) Biological - Ceramic Cylinders or Bio Balls. Chemical -Carbon. Mechanical -Filter Floss or Sponge. Depends on your sump design ad how many compartments you have or if just useing filters you already have but should go B-C-M anyhoo imho.

( 5 ) dosent matter as long as your not restricting the return pump and it puts in exactly what it taken out , well i guess it does matter just dont make it less then the feed line

( 6 ) close the valves and Git'er done, use a black marker on your sump to mark the max fill line when the entire unit is at full volume.

Anyone who wants to chime in and make an arse outta me is welcome lol, im having a bad day and cant tell if this all came out as well as i intended. flame on! Be sure to check on my info because someone with more XP may totally or partly disagree with me.

[theamish]

Jason,

First off thanks for the reply.....

1) I'm not actually going to pump the water out, it will be gravity fed, i'm not sure if you were able to use the link that I posted but it has a very simple diagram of what im doing.

2) I guess with that info I will actually put the BH a little higher for 2 reasons. First I picked up a 10g tank for practically dirt today and I want to use that as my sump and second, I am going to have fish in the tank so in case of failure I don't want the water to drain and come home to a lot of flopping fish.. LOL(I can picture that in my head).

6) When you say mark the max fill line, you mean kill the pump and let the BH fill the tank and mark where the water stops at and then I can drain some water out and refill to that line?

I really appreciate everyones answers.... I cant tell you how much help you guys have been, just by surfing the boards and picking thru posts!!

[theamish]

Athen,
I don't know if the link is working but if you click it at the top of my post it will take you to my .mac gallery, there is only 1 pic in there right now so it should be the only thing that loads up.

I had the same idea of hooking a drainage valve to the sump for using with a hose but im not sure if the sump water would have enough force to travel thru my hose to the slop sink(about 20ft or so). I suppose i could just drain into a bucket...hmmm.
One other question, when you say fill from the hose... you don't mean straight from the tap do you... cause I have read you need to treat the water for like 48hrs, declorinate and all that good stuff. So im curious how I could use the hose to refill?

[Green Ghost]

Before I "chime in" here I have a couple of suggestions:


If you've never done anything like this before you need to go really slowly before drilling any holes.

Really take time to think about what you want.

Create an ideal list of what you want to have in your sump (what sections you want and how the water will flow)

The whole purpose of a sump is to automate or render maintenance on the viv much easier.



Without going into any specifics here are some suggestions you might want to consider:

I would not make a hole in the side of the tank, I would do it in one of the bottom rear corners. Use a riser tube cut to the right height to control the water level height. This virtually eliminates clogging.

Use rigid tubing not flex hose. Hose will bend in time and block.

Use snap in connectors to facilitate connecting and disconnecting lines where necessary.

Use valves on each end of all your plumbing. You won't need to prime the pipes if the sump is stopped for any reason. There should be some small section of transparent tubing so you can see if the line is primed.

The sump should be able to hold all the water in your viv (or vivs). This way it can never overflow. Keep in mind a single sump can filter more than just one viv. (you may want to add vivs to this sump later on)

Make the sump as long as the tank if you have the room. Longer sumps mean more room for different compartments in the sump.

Plants may be used in sumps to filter ammonia. Try to set the sump where you will be able to provide flourescent T5 fixtures above it.


Honestly, have more suggestions but that's just for starters.

[Jason]

Aye, you want to be sure the sump can handle the entire volume below the overflow, once you have it set up and running the way you want grab a bucket (or in you case a cup would do seeing its not a full tank) and then simulate a power outage and see what happens to the water in the main tank and sump, once water no longer drains from the main tank and the sump is as full as its gunna get thats where you put your mark as a reference, then start up and get it running properly again and make a new mark at the water lvl in your sump at normal operation. This difference between the black lines will tell you how much water is divided between your main tank and lines, the second is what you use as a max fill line. GO slow with GG suggestion of a riser tube, this will need some tweeking for if you cut it to low you get to much water and a bothersome gargling sound and its functionality is dependant on the flow you require outbound. ** CAUTION **---> As for drilling your tanks bottom pane i would be really carefull with this as we only know how many gallons of water your going to have in there and not the total size of your tank or the make, if the base it made of tempered glass and you drill it KABOOM, of this you can be sure..

[froggsong]

hmmmmmmmm plants.... that's a great idea. Still watching this one!

[theamish]

Green Ghost,

Thanks for the reply, a few things......

I have been and continually will be creating a list and researching this to death before I even think to start drilling.

I cant drill the bottom because it is tempered glass, so says the manufacturer. The BH will be installed in the bottom right corner of the rear pane.

I do plan on using PVC pipe and control valves on both the return and the supply.

Unfortunately the sump is only a 10g because thats all I can fit right now, however seeing as there will only be 19g of water in the tank I planned on drilling the BH a little higher then half way up to be safe.

I do like the idea of making it longer for more filter media and plants.... I will have to see what I can figure out, maybe a 20g long.

Now a question, how do you calculate the gph a specific size line of PVC can flow. For instance if I use a 1" BH piped into 1" PVC line (gravity fed) direct to the sump approx how many gph would this deliver? Also i'm sure distance, angle and the strainer even come into play. I just want some info to start on.

As far as having more suggestions, lay 'em on me.... I'm a note taking, info soaking mad man!!!