Is epoxy paint really as safe as we think? (posts copied from a thread in "Snakes")

LadyParvati · #1 11-11-2008, 12:32 PM

Just a quick note for future thoughts--merely covering the pine with moss or whatever will NOT prevent the phenols from outgasing into the atmosphere in the snake's enclosure. Unless you _completely_ covered the pine very thoroughly with silicon, the danger still exists, and if you missed some spots--which would be very easy to do, the danger would still exist. Also, for all I know, the phenols could outgas _through_ the silicon. So, it's just better not to use pine or cedar at all.

froggsong · #2 11-14-2008, 03:13 PM

Well, so glad to hear there are folks waiting for my article! I think I will be posting it as an article, rather than just a thread. We need some useful ones...

Lady, I'm glad you posted that about the pine, I didn't know it would still be so dangerous even after it is covered. Do you think it's ok to use pine for framing if it is coated in epoxy paint? Since that is water tight and whatnot, I would assume it would be fine. Am I wrong? Don't want to kill my CWD if I ever get around to building that enclosure.

LadyParvati · #3 11-18-2008, 06:16 PM

Won't the framing be on the outside rather than the inside? Once the epoxy has dried completely, I think it would be OK, especially if you used two coats to ensure complete coverage.

You are so ambitious, Meghan! I just can't work up the energy to build an enclosure. Guess I'll stick with my writing & finish my degree.

We do need some useful articles about that kind of thing though. I especially like it when people include step-by-step photos so we can use the text & photos to explain each other & help us see the process clearly. I know a lot of people like to build their herp enclosures.

BTW--cool new rainbow photo, Meghan! I love it! Sandy

froggsong · #4 11-18-2008, 07:05 PM

Thanks, a friend made it for me.

The framing will be on the inside... I can't really think of any other way to do it, but I am by no means a carpenter, lol... I'm glad the epoxy should be fine...

Anyway, I don't want to Hijack!!! So I'll shut up now.

LadyParvati · #5 11-18-2008, 11:18 PM

I guess I'm not envisioning the enclosure quite the same way. But I still think that once the pine is thoroughly coated with the epoxy, which will be easier than coating with silicon sealer or hot glue, it will be fine. I have a couple of chemist friends I'll ask tomorrow to be sure.

Ooops. I continued the hijacking. Sorry, Darc!

LadyParvati · #6 11-21-2008, 09:46 AM

OK, Meghan, about the epoxy--a chemistry professor friend of mine said you need to do the epoxy outside or in a well-ventilated room where you can leave it to cure and don't put any live animal in it for several months because it outgasses for a long time.

Also, are you aware that epoxy has bisphenol A (BPA) in it? That's the chemical that has been put in some plastics (e.g., polycarbonates/#7) such as baby bottles that the government of Canada has now banned. A lot of people in the U.S. are trying to get the FDA to ban it as well--it interacts with hormones and reduces fertility, and it has been implicated in some cancers. My son made me throw away all my plastic containers with BPA in them because it leaches out into the food or water or other liquid.

In addition, epoxy is not UV-resistant and will break down in sunlight. If the lamps you plan to use in the enclosure will produce UV, epoxy isn't a good choice.

Anyway, my friend wonders why you don't look into another means of sealing the wood, such as marine varnish (spar varnish) or another polyurethane. Spar varnish dries more completely and is UV-resistant, too.

Whatever you consider, look into any possible health issues, degradation resistance, etc. Good luck!

froggsong · #7 11-21-2008, 01:44 PM

Wow, and that applies to the one for potable water tanks as well? There are so many people using it for enclosures and not letting it cure for months, I hope they aren't hurting their babies! I'll look into the alternatives you listed, who knows, maybe they'll be easier to find. I definitely need something that will make a water PROOF seal, so that the wood can hold water (and humidity) without rotting. Whatever I use has to be able to be under the water table indefinitely.

I'm going to move this to a new thread, ok?

viva la viv · #8 11-21-2008, 10:08 PM

hey frogsong just a note about varnish I found that it tends to flake if not sanded properly between coats when submerged, those little flakes float to the surface and were eaten by my fish and killed all 10 fish in the tank and not quickly they first started swiming funny then died 1 by 1, wasn't fun, I rebuilt the tank with epoxy and it has been up for 2 months with no bad effects yet. More time will tell the tale though

froggsong · #9 11-21-2008, 11:34 PM

i'm hoping Lady will respond again soon, because I'm not sure if she is refering to the same kind we use for vives or regular epoxy paints ( like appliance epoxy for example). I know that the epoxy paints we use for vives have been used for a long time for reef tanks, as well as large vives. Maybe foxfish can chime in on this one too ...

viva la viv · #10 11-21-2008, 11:46 PM

the stuff i used was for tub and tile I seen the appliance paint in spray cans but i was told to only use 2 part epoxy if it is submerged. I'm confident that epoxy is better than varnish or urathains as one coat is equal to 55 coats of the best var. or urath. you can buy thats what sold me