Moss propagation, care, and general info

[terrestrial_man]

Originally Posted by Greg H.

If minerals in water are detrimental to ~95% of moss varieties, why not just seek out the other 5%?

Surely this might be easier ( and cheaper ) in the long run than trying to deal with hard water issues?

This issue is really so variable as tap water is not the same around the country or even in the same region. Plus whatever additives are put into the water by city water departments will have a bearing on the impact such water makes on a colony of moss. Another variable that compounds really trying to generalize accurately is the nature of the substrate the moss is growing on.
Presuming that all city water is pH buffered to 7.0 then pH is not an issue for the mosses. What really is an issue is if the water drains off rapidly and is washed off the mosses by regular daily watering, perhaps followed with a flush of distilled or r/o water.
Many commercial nurseries that water frequently will be hosts to unwanted liverworts and mosses in their plant containers irregardless of the fact that only city water is used. For a confined space such as a terrarium distilled or r/o water are requred for aquatic or terrestrial plantings but not for sites where water movement is constant.
R/O water is really the best to use for any purpose and for any substrate, including paper or artificial felt.

[Greg H.]

Originally Posted by terrestrial_man

Many commercial nurseries that water frequently will be hosts to unwanted liverworts and mosses in their plant containers irregardless of the fact that only city water is used. For a confined space such as a terrarium distilled or r/o water are requred for aquatic or terrestrial plantings but not for sites where water movement is constant.
R/O water is really the best to use for any purpose and for any substrate, including paper or artificial felt.

I understand that, but there are a couple of things ( at least from my point of view ) that are going to be considered.

1) There are already minerals in the tank ( for a variety of reasons ).
2) Constant use of R/O H2O can not be good for the health of animals and plants other than mosses ( I realize that I am being generous in placing moss with other higher plants, but you understand what I'm trying to say ), especially for animals and plants that are exposed to more minerals in their native environment.

I'm not advocating the use of city water, just the water already within the Viv.

Before you think that I'm talking about using water that is heavily laden with waste, please understand that I advocate and practice having a high plant to animal ratio, so that the plants naturally filter the water - but the water will still have a mineral load naturally picked up from the background and substrate - most likely it will be calcium, but with some other minerals, but as I prefer native US species, the animals and plants are naturally more exposed to more minerals in their native environment, than their tropical counterparts.

[terrestrial_man]

Greg H,
Not too sure if there really is an issue at all. Everything depends on how you construct your terrarium and what you build up your substrate to be. If it is a closed system then everything including water would be entirely contained and recycled within the system. Such systems are not within the scope of most terrarium-ists. So the problem of water that will feed a variety of plant life without endangering any of the plant life is a question of irrigation, recycling, and substrate characteristics. What makes it really doable to combine mosses with more nitrogen dependent vascular plants is the use of the felt system. The substrate can be constructed to house essential nutrients and then covered where desired by a felt pad to house mosses. If percolation and run-off are directed into a collection tank or feeder pool then the excess water can be removed from the system. For natural systems r/o water should be ok as it is only slightly acidic and possibly less than that is currently falling in the natural world. But for a natural system the type of system that is being used may mean that less watering is needed at all except for those habitats constructed to replicate areas where there is high precipitation and in such a case r/o should pose little risk for plants that are already exposed to such levels of acidity in the normal rain cycles.
I would think that this issue is not as vital as is the construction of the terrarium and the substrate.

[Greg H.]

I was looking a background of hypertuffa modified with coir on an eggcrate base, so there would be a fair amount of calcium in the system, which from what I have been given to understand most moss species do not like and as such I have been trying for the last few years to identify moss species capable of growth on the calcium. I'm still working on the substrate, but at this time I'm planning on a mix of coir, sphagnum, charcoal, with some rabbit manure, and a limited amount of iron based clay ( just enough so that it will coat everything ), and then add a variety of dead leaves to promote micro and macro fauna.


If I am understanding the felt system correctly there is a plastic sheet to keep the ground from draining the area of moss and the felt is just to act as a base for the moss to grow on - I was thinking of a more natural material, such as a small area of pure clay to prevent drainage and a pad of coir or tree fern root to provide the initial substrate for the moss to grow on. Thoughts?


As you mention there would be a central pool of water that collects, but all the "rain" water for the rest of the tank, would be drawn from it. I live in a fairly dry area, and as such I would have to replace what evaporated fairly regular but unknown interval, and was planning to use R/O water as the replacement, by way of a mist system - would the misting be enough for the mosses?

[terrestrial_man]

Greg H.
I would stick to felt as coir and tree fern seem to be a more demanding substrate for moss to grow on. The use of a plastic layer for the felt system is for outdoor applications. My own feelings on using felt based moss colonies is to grow them outside in order to get a colony established and looking good and then cut to size those portions for the spots in the terrarium. In case there is any problem with the moss colony in the terrarium then you would have more to work with already established outside. While wicking may occur between the felt and the substrate I cannot state what kind of impact such would make as regards the carry-up of Ca or other ions. If such occurs and moss growth is curtailed then the felt could be glued to any type of nonpermeable base and then located into the terrarium.
Misting is more than adequate when they are confined to a terrarium though an occasional wash down would be beneficial. The mosses I grow are outside and are subjected to humidity levels that range from 50% or less in PM to 80% or less in early AM with the possibility of wind. Misting is my usual method of countering dessication with maybe weekly watering, all using R/O water.

[Greg H.]

Starting them outside might be a little problematic here - if the humidity gets above 30%, it's probably raining -- come to think of it, I don't recall seeing much moss at all around here, although the fence has a smattering of lichen ( I wonder if lichen is something I can get growing in a viv? )

[terrestrial_man]

Originally Posted by Greg H.

Starting them outside might be a little problematic here - if the humidity gets above 30%, it's probably raining -- come to think of it, I don't recall seeing much moss at all around here, although the fence has a smattering of lichen ( I wonder if lichen is something I can get growing in a viv? )

You can grow moss anywhere IF you have the time and resources to do so.
The mosses I grow come from other areas of the US. Locally the only mosses that I have ran across besides Bryum are those that are brought in as cover in the pots of landscaping plants. There are mosses that grow east and north up in the mountains.
You would have to develop the means to do so. All you would need is the quality water, a pressure sprayer, clear containers, and a suitable substrate of either artificial felt or a 50/50 blend of river sand and peat moss.

Lichens could possibly grow in a viv but they seem to requre very cold temps at least at night coupled with much higher humidity at night.

[Greg H.]

Originally Posted by terrestrial_man

........ All you would need is the quality water, a pressure sprayer, clear containers, and a suitable substrate of either artificial felt or a 50/50 blend of river sand and peat moss.

And a source of moss

[froggsong]

LOL... that's true. I must say, you have a fine source of moss right here! :: points at self ::

[Greg H.]

I'll keep that in mind - meanwhile I need to find my copy of Moss Gardening, I put it up a year or so ago, even saw it a couple of months ago, and started looking for it a week ago, but I'll be hanged if I can remember where it was I put it up or saw it.

( just to put the proper light on things, my book and magazine collection is over 3000 copies - so needless to say I could be looking for quite a while )