Moss propagation, care, and general info - Page 11

harrywitmore · #**101** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newsalt

I am new and not real familiar with ecoweb but from what I have read and the discussions I have come across it seems ( to me ) that ecoweb is made from recycled plastics is not much more than a glorified scrubby ( different thickness of fiber and density of mesh ) where felt wold absorb and hold water ecoweb would retain water droplets in its structure but would not stay wet like felt which is actualy made from wool fibers and fibers themself would absorb and hold moisture.
Please correct me if I am wrong or off base here but it seems the felt is used to retain maximum water retention and ecoweb is designed to let most of the moisture to pass through and retain small amounts of water droplets caught in its mesh making for a dryer substrate.

You are not off base. ECOWEB is used more for a growing surface for epiphytes. From what I have seen no mosses spontaneously get started on it since it's too open. Thats why you need some something in addition to get the mosses growing on. I use sphagnum but you could use other materials such as peat. Bottom line is that for growing purposes it's not the best medium for moss. But, as you can see in the pictures I posted it will grow them. The good thing about ECOWEB/EPIWEB is that you can form almost anything with it given a fair amount of practice and once a moss mix slurry is added it can be pretty impressive. I have not tried any of the scrubbing pads so I can't speak to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckdg

i think i know the stuff you're talking about froggy. it's the cut it yourself pads at walmart. i would think a fine (white in home depot) buffing pad would hold more moisture and give more of a flatter surface for moss to grow on. i know some of my java moss is adapting to terrestrial growth quite well on a black sump filter block i have my lucky bamboo growing out of. that would be another option (although i think harry mentioned it earlier on)... aquarium filter blocks/pads.

The filter pads are a good choice if you are doing something really large. You can buy 12'x28" x1" for $100. I got the course but after using the ECOWEB I would get dense although it's green in color and not black. Here's where I bought it

Bulk Filter Media, Matala, Poly Flo, Pond USA .com, Pond, Fountain & Water Garden Supplies

beckdg · #**102** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 10:28 AM

all this talk about padding/filters/ecoweb/felt/etc. has me thinking. i bet some polyfiber quilt batting would be a good growing media also. not the thick, loose stuff but the thin tight sheets if it will hold up should do well. i know they sell it at ole wally world in sheets perfect size for a crib sized quilt. for the price of a couple square feet of felt you could get enough to cover a whole crib tucked in around the sides. i am currently using that in my fish filter for polishing and it's holding up well there too. i'm thinking this might be a good material for seeding and sewing into an ecoweb panel.

thoughts?

harry... your plant info is impeccable. i just wish i could add to your reputation again... argh.

harrywitmore · #**103** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 10:42 AM

I think it may be worth a try. I used capillary mat for an epiphyte wall and it did pretty well. Unfortunately I lost interest and allowed it to dry out.

Beck, I'm learning all kinds of new things here. I'm very happy to see Jerry over here as he has tons of experience with many of the fern allies. You all offer allot of information.

Grimm · #**104** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 01:20 PM

I have seen a ton of amazing photos of people that use Eco/Epiweb. You can even buy a tropical moss mixture from their website that they give a 100% growth success rate using their Ecoweb II system.

The only problems that I have herd about this product is that unless it is completely covered in moss the capilary action will be limited. Also, if the openings in the fibers arent filled in, they are the perfect size for frogs to get their legs cought. I have even herd that frogs have had their legs broken and as a result have even been killed from it. I'm sure this is a long shot but if anyone uses this product (as I am planning in my next tank) make sure it is WELL grown-in before adding animals.

harrywitmore · #**105** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

I have seen a ton of amazing photos of people that use Eco/Epiweb. You can even buy a tropical moss mixture from their website that they give a 100% growth success rate using their Ecoweb II system.

The only problems that I have herd about this product is that unless it is completely covered in moss the capilary action will be limited. Also, if the openings in the fibers arent filled in, they are the perfect size for frogs to get their legs cought. I have even herd that frogs have had their legs broken and as a result have even been killed from it. I'm sure this is a long shot but if anyone uses this product (as I am planning in my next tank) make sure it is WELL grown-in before adding animals.

These materials have no capillary action on their own. Water will not soak up into the material so you must have some way to trickle water down through it by spraying or pumping water to the top and allow it to run through the material.. This is what they are calling the EPIWEB II System.

beckdg · #**106** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 01:36 PM

ecoweb can also be partially covered like marty did in his 90 gal build. he used habacrete but it's by far not the only option available. i'd think just about anything would stick to it. this may be a good option if you might not have the time, money or plants already established to wait for an entire setup to fill in. also ecoweb can be utilized in so many ways so it can be covered with a substrate, etc., etc. also.

so yeah... if you have use for it, rather than being discouraged thinking of what your best way to get around it would be a better option imo.

froggsong · #**107** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 02:39 PM

SO, since water has to be pumped through the ecoweb, how do you guys think the water that's being recirculated will affect the moss? Since it needs water with as little nutrients as possible, I would think that the water recirculation might burn the moss with the minerals it picks up along the way.

harrywitmore · #**108** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 02:55 PM

I use rainwater with no fertilizer. It probably picks up some minerals but it's seems to be working well so far. I do mist every now and then with rainwater and MSU fertilizer made for rainwater.

whybother? · #**109** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 02:55 PM

Just a pic of some moss I took a while ago.

Epiphile · #**110** (**permalink**) 03-06-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by froggsong

SO, since water has to be pumped through the ecoweb, how do you guys think the water that's being recirculated will affect the moss? Since it needs water with as little nutrients as possible, I would think that the water recirculation might burn the moss with the minerals it picks up along the way.

I wouldn't think it would be able to pick up enough along the way to become problematic, but that's just intuition, I guess. The moss will be taking some nutrients out of the water, and I doubt much new nutrients would enter the system save through water changes/fertilization. I guess this is all dependent on things like the initial concentrations in the water, nutrient uptake rates of the moss, evaporation affecting said concentrations, etc. Lots to think about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrywitmore

I use rainwater with no fertilizer. It probably picks up some minerals but it's seems to be working well so far. I do mist every now and then with rainwater and MSU fertilizer made for rainwater.

Harry, do you know what PPM nitrogen you're dosing when you do? And do you carry this regime throughout your collection, or just with the more salt-sensitive plants like mosses?