Firebelly toad vivarium advice

[deadriel]

Hello i'm new here and from what I can tell so far i wish I'd have found this
place first before I started looking for advice and info on the little guys.
My questions are regarding a new setup i'm going to do. So Heres where
I stretch my welcome as a new member and my first post.
After seeing examples like this one



I really want to create something much more natural and comfortable for
them. So heres a rough idea of what I cooked up. . .



Now bear with me my graphical art skills aren't very impressive when i'm in
a hurry but this is basically what I'd like to know...

I plan to use a waterfall/filter because they really seem to like sitting in
the running water plus its much more attractive than a typical green one.
I'd like a substrate thats capable of growing vines and other leafy plants
but also will not murk the water or clog the filter.

On the floor of the tank I'd like a moss that will pretty much take over
the dry parts and will be comfortable for them to move around on. I
have a fogger, can I turn it on every few days to keep the humidity
up or is misting a better meathod?

As for the water plants i'll most likely transplant the frogbit to the new terrarium and maybe find some other amphibious plants as they seem to enjoy sitting on them. The plants in the dry areas i'll probably use vines and other leafy plants that tend to leave open space below them. After all what fun are the toads if you can never see them. Any and all suggestions are much appreciated, I've done a lot of looking around online at different setups, and my biggest obstacle at the moment is not knowing which plant species fit my intentions. . .

[froggsong]

I'm just stopping in briefly, so I don't have alot of time for a lengthy post, but a great plant for the setup you are considering is pothos. It has large sturdy leaves that will support the toads weight, and it can grow in almost any conditions, including emersed and even submerged.

It's going to be difficult to do a setup the way I think you want without having the water turn somewhat brown. The brown color is tannic acid leaching from the soil into the water, and the only way to keep it 100% clear is to divide the pond and land entirely. The other way to keep it mostly clear is to have the substrate high enough over the level of the pond that it can't leech into the water as much. Personally, I like the tannic water, I think it looks more natural, and it doesn't bother the toads at all.

hmmm, I guess one way you could keep it shallow but keep the substrate from sitting in the water is to use flat stones to raise the substrate up, instead of gravel, which will wick up more water.

Anyway, I have to run, but feel free to ask lots of questions. It's what we're here for, to share our experiences and knowledge with other... And to look at pics... Definitely to look at pics, lol.

If I forget to come back later, please feel free to shoot me a PM so I don't forget about the thread.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

[deadriel]

I've thought about using rocks to lift the substrate above the water, or a divider. Just haven't decided yet. I'll probably go with java moss in the water so i'll most likely be putting a screen over the filter anyway. I think I'll
get the java moss growing in the water first and transplant peices along the
soil and ledges. Everyone says this stuff grows at a crazy rate with the right conditions.


A hint of brown to the water wouldn't be a big deal as you said adds a more natural look. I just don't want soil thats going to cloud up the water but my guess is a well established carpet of java moss will hold it in place if I even use dirt in the water area. Pothos sounds like a great idea because I want to be able to plant and change the direction of growth accordingly, also plants that grow in and out of the water are always an attractive addition.

Thanks for the advice.


Heres some pics

:Twinkle right :Toes left



:Twinkle top :Toes bottom


Begining to think they're both males, Toes barks and jumps on Twinkle.
dont know yet if Twinkle barks but gets on top of Toes from time to time
my girl friend named them hehe...


*edit* I was looking around the yard just now and I spotted this stuff


It grows about 1/2 inch from the ground thick cover very soft & spongey, any idea
what it is? And if it would make a good ground cover, I scooped up a small bit and put in
a nursery tank to see if it will even grow in a terrarium environment.

[froggsong]

When I've found that growing thickly enough to grab some, I have found that if it doesn't have enough light it gets very tall and gangly, so make sure you keep plenty of light on it. I'd LOVE to have a nice established bit of it like in your picture. I don't know what it is, but it just looks great in a frog or toad vive... I guess because it looks like lily pads. I've seen this growing on verges (the place where land meets water), so you might even get it to grow emersed or even submerged. Of course, it could be something entirely different that looks very similar to what I'm familiar with...

If you can get me a back shot of the toads out of th water so I can see the shape of the body, I can sex them for you, as long as they are healthy and full grownish.

[deadriel]

I might could arrange to ship some to you, theres more than plently in our back yard. If it grows well in the nursery tank I'll probably just use it entirly to cover the land portion of the terrarium and then let the java moss connect with it at the waters edge. Be interesting to see which one is dominant over the other.

[froggsong]

Hmmmmm.. I'll have to think about taking you up on that offer. Where are you located? I'm going to be setting up a new tank over the next few weeks, so I might have room for some. How much would you charge? Or maybe we could do a swap and I could send you some mosses? I live in a wetlands (literally), and there are TONS of different mosses all throughout my yard and in the nearby woods. Some I've had great success with, some I'm having good success with so far, and some I haven't had such good success with. Plus there are some I haven't even tried yet, lol. I've got some pretty neat lichens that would look great on a BG too, including some pixie cups. I harvested some of those to go in the new tank I am getting ready for just yesterday. If we were to do a swap, I am also capable of sterilizing any moss for you with CO2. I'll be sterilizing mine to bring it inside in just a couple of days.

[Kyle The Toad]

Deadriel, both of your toads are males.

[deadriel]

Kyle how can you tell? Is it because they both jump on each other?

A swap might be possible I've really only messed with fish tanks in the past so anything beyond
aquatic plants i'm a newbie with. Prefferably something hardy not too tough to grow maybe. . .

[Kyle The Toad]

Well, Deadriel, we've already established that Toes is a male because he tries to breed with Twinkle. Here is how you can tell male from female just by looking at them:

Male
-Wide shoulders compared to hips.
-Large forearm compared to upper arm. The skin of their arms is rough.
-Short, stubby fingers.

Female
-Narrow shoulders compared to wide hips.
-Long, thin forearm and upper arm. The skin of their arms is smooth.
-Long, narrow fingers.
-Their legs tend to be thin.

Both of your toads have all of the characteristics of a male. Also, any time you see a toad calling or barking, it will be a male. The females have a different sound than the males, but that would be impossible to explain...

[Kyle The Toad]

Deadriel, you do not want to get any plants that are delicate. Don't get anything that's easy to break or has small flowers on it. I learned this the hard way... The toads like to jump all over everything, and when they jump and climb all over the plants, they'll tear leaves and flowers off. And if the plant moves or has something moving on it, then they will bite it and will not let go until they rip something off.

If you must have delicate plants, put them where the toads can't reach them. I have one creeping fig on a mud wall that I built that the toads can't get to and another creeping fig that they can reach... The one they can reach doesn't look very good... I also have a baby fern that the toads have ruined, I'm hoping that it will come back.

Two good plants to use would be green pothos and philodendron, they're big and leafy, so the toads can't tear them up. Also, the toads seem to like sitting on and under them. You should probably put plants in the deepest part of the water for the toads to hang on to. Mine like to wrap their arms around the leaves or stalks and float there lazily all day. Also it gives the females something to safely hang onto when they're being grabbed by the males. The males are usually strong enough to get away from the other males though.