Carpet algae???

[fionafancypants]

I have had a bout with what the pet store likes to call carpet algae, i have a filter for the tank and am not sure what is making the water and rocks green, it was great for over a month, we lost power and then BOOM i had algae, i was told to boil the rocks and clean filter i should be good but its only been a couple weeks now and im green again??/ Any advice? Is there something that i can put in the water to help combat the algae?

Thanks

Valerie

[DazzleDiscus]

I am sorry, but I've never heard of carpet algae before. Is it blueish-green in color and covers everything in a slimey blanket? If so, then it is mostlikely cyanobacteria, which is toxic to most fish/shrimp and will not be eaten by them.

Most likely the algae spores/bacteria came from your tap or came over from new/shared plants.
I would go ahead and boil the rocks again, clean the decor as good as possible and refill with freshwater. Usually algae gets out of control if there are imbalances within the tank. Combinations/imbalances of too much light, too much fertilizer/waste, and not enough plants allows algae to gain a foot hold.

I would suggest doing regular waterchanges if you don't do that already, and also add some heavy-feeding/fast-growing water plants like watersprite for the time being. Watersprite will use a lot of the dissolved fertilizer/waste in the water and will shade the water as well due to its floating habit. It will grow rather quickly if there is an abundance of fertilizer, but it is rather easy to take out of the tank if you find it gets out of control.

Personally, I do not like adding anything chemical-related product into the water to hinder the growth of algae. This tactic does NOT solve the issue, and just sucks money out of the wallet.

a few questions:
What size is the vive/palu/?? and how much of it is water?
What animals are living in the tank - including fish please.
What kinds of plants do you already have?
And what kind/how strong are your lights? Because you said that the bloom happened during a power outage, I am rather leaning towards the "carpet algae" being cyanobacteria.

[froggsong]

Dazzle, will the cyanobacteria grow underwater? I've only ever gotten it on the underside of the glass tops of the aquariums. It was my understanding that it needed a more oxygen rich environment to survive.

Whatever it is, it definitely DOES point to an imbalance in water quality. Boiling the rocks and decor will probably just add to the problem. Sure, it might kill the algae, but it will also kill all of the nitrifying bacteria that was growing on them. This will most likely lead to nitrite and ammonia spikes, which will lead to more algae.

If you are feeding fish in the water, cut the feeding of flake food down. Flake food is high in phosphorus, which algae needs to grow. If you have alot of phosphorus, you'll have alot of algae, every time. You can get filter media that removes phosphorus, if the algae is algae and not cyanobacteria, using this filter media will help. It won't kill it overnight, but it will keep it from spreading and it will slowly die off. I've used it to help with a tank overrun by BBA (black brush algae). With the help of the phosphorus remover, I've been able to keep just a bit of it on the rocks (after all algae is very efficient at getting rid of nitrates and ammonia) without it taking over the tank again or growing on the leaves of my plants.

[DazzleDiscus]

Froggsong - oh my, yes indeed cyanobacteria can be underwater. In my earlier days of fishkeeping I had a horrible time with this "algae" once I brought it in on some new plants. ...that's inexperience for ya.

Be thankful that that is the only place where it will grow! I also have some that likes to grow on the glass cover on one of my tanks. As long as it doesn't gain a hold in the water column, I'm cool with it. I just wipe it off every so often :P

Anyways, lack of water flow has sometimes been attributed to blooms. Supposeably doing a 100% 3-day "blackout" (ie: no light entering the tank) will kill it off. I would have to dissagree from my experience of doing a total black out for 5days. It didn't work. I got mine undercontrol by doing water changes and adding waterwisteria.

Quote from guitarfish.org:
guitarfish.org - Algae types

"Blue Green (Cyanobacteria)

While often referred to by aquarists as an algae, Blue Green Algae (BGA) is in fact a bacterial slime that can easily coat everything in your tank. Appearing as either a green, black, or purple coating, BGA is perhaps best known for the unique earthy smell that it has when pulled from the tank. As a nitrogen-fixing bacteria, it will fully deplete your water column of any available nitrogen.

Causes:
•Low nitrates – Usually present when all of the nitrogen/nitrate has been removed from the water column. While this is a triggering condition, it is also exacerbated by the bacteria itself using any remaining nitrogen.
•High organics – Overfeeding, or excess organic matter in the tank can trigger BGA.
•Old light bulbs – Sometimes present when light bulbs are no longer emitting usable light. This may be more of a matter of your plants no longer being able to out-compete the bacteria.
•Poor water circulation – Circulation is key in a planted aquarium so that no “dead spots” are present where nutrients have been used up locally, but fresh ones are not being recirculated throughout."

This next picture is from naturalaquariums.com and shows how unsightly cyanobacteria can get if it is allowed to rule the tank:

[beckdg]

Is it blueish-green in color and covers everything in a slimey blanket? If so, then it is mostlikely cyanobacteria, which is toxic to most fish/shrimp and will not be eaten by them.

agreed.

I would go ahead and boil the rocks again, clean the decor as good as possible and refill with freshwater.

i disagree... that's cause for issues.

Usually algae gets out of control if there are imbalances within the tank.

agreed.

I would suggest doing regular waterchanges if you don't do that already, and also add some heavy-feeding/fast-growing water plants like watersprite for the time being.

water changes... weekly to monthly depending on the tank usually is good. for plants... if light and abundant nutrients are the issue anything floating should help... don't kill yourself trying to find something in particular. if it is cyano it's more likely that LACKING nutrients (specifically nitrates) is the issue... not an abundance.

Personally, I do not like adding anything chemical-related product into the water to hinder the growth of algae. This tactic does NOT solve the issue, and just sucks money out of the wallet.

oooooh, how do i agree! in a high tech planted aquarium some see it necessary to revert to h2o2 or flourish excel direct dosing or erythromycin dosing of the entire tank though. i don't personally see how killing beneficial bacteria with erythromycin helps and these people often battle it again but hey.

Flake food is high in phosphorus, which algae needs to grow.

but so do plants.

If you have alot of phosphorus, you'll have alot of algae, every time.

mine have NEVER been below 4ppm and i haven't had algae in quite a bit in either tank... anywhere. i'd be happy to send you a little sample of the ferts i'm using. they surely could help.

Supposeably doing a 100% 3-day "blackout" (ie: no light entering the tank) will kill it off. I would have to dissagree from my experience of doing a total black out for 5days. It didn't work.

cyano is like the flu... it has morphed so many times you don't really know what you're working with. some forms seem to persist even where there is no light. so in a way the blackout is both a myth and confirmed many times over. from watching i guess discovery channel i've found out that cyano is probably one of the first forms of life on the earth. the gases it gave off helped form our atmosphere into what it is today.

guitarfish huh... good link for sure to have... i like james' planted tank myself.

anyway... for enough reading and learning you'll probably ever want on planted tanks... Fertilization in a paludarium setting

there's good info in one or many of the links in my first post there. you should be able to identify and treat from one of them.

[DazzleDiscus]

"Quote:
I would go ahead and boil the rocks again, clean the decor as good as possible and refill with freshwater.

i disagree... that's cause for issues."

Ah- no I see what you mean. 100% water changes are not desireable. I should not have said to refill with freshwater. I don't see a problem with cleaning off the decor again though, as long as other measures are taken to fix the cyano problem.

[beckdg]

depends on how much decor... if everything is covered with cyano and it's all boiled you may start cycling again. i agree that if you can scrape it off that's good but don't "scrub". another thing dying cyano can give off it's own "poison" so it's good to clean the filters often... just not too good to kill the good bacteria.

100% water changes may be desirable. it depends on the situation. cyano often pops up when nitrates are low. if this is the case in this situation and your source water doesn't carry any nitrates then you are now defeating your purpose. if your tap does contain nitrates and your tank doesn't it may very well give it that boost it needs.

when my nitrates in my 30gal drop to around 5ppm cyano creeps up on me. i dose a tiny scoop (from a red sea testing kit) of kno3 (potassium nitrate) whenever i notice nitrates under 10 and i haven't seen cyano in a long while. mind you that tank gets light up to 16hrs depending on the day and circulation is mostly done with airstones.

[fionafancypants]

Thanks so much for replying, i have only a couple regular light bulbs for light/heat and it was all ok untill i felt that the tank was getting cold at night, so i got a red 'heat' bulb and then the power outage happened, so i figure it was a combo of the two...

I have a 20 gal long, it only has the frogs, i have photos on here somewhere, so a 1/3 is like landish and the rest a pond, the rocks, gravel are pushed up against the one side and then barely are on the floor of the tank, i have only one plastic plant and its mostly just a wall hanging thing for decor but they like to swim behind and hide at times.

I notice that they like to hang out in the shallow and wade sort of, not really swimmers. but like the wet. I bot new rocks because id rather move everything out and put in fresh, honestly can i run the other stuff, i have a bridge, and the plant, thru the dishwasher?

I got the 'carpet algae' wording from the pet store but am not suprised that this is not an actual name for algae, they really dont know, as i am finding out, much about the toads to begin with...

so i guess how can i light the cage during the time i like to gaze apon the frogs, and then how can i keep the algae down. it seems to be that there was no problem for about a month then i got the red light, then i got the power outage, i no longer keep the red light on, i have a heat emitter if i need it but it seems to be too strong for what i need and may get something later down the road, i like to keep them over 60 at night and i have a cold house.

Sorry for rambling and thanks for the help, i really like these guys and hope to help them have a happy life.

Ill check out your floating plant, should be able to get at pet store?

Originally Posted by DazzleDiscus

I am sorry, but I've never heard of carpet algae before. Is it blueish-green in color and covers everything in a slimey blanket? If so, then it is mostlikely cyanobacteria, which is toxic to most fish/shrimp and will not be eaten by them.

Most likely the algae spores/bacteria came from your tap or came over from new/shared plants.
I would go ahead and boil the rocks again, clean the decor as good as possible and refill with freshwater. Usually algae gets out of control if there are imbalances within the tank. Combinations/imbalances of too much light, too much fertilizer/waste, and not enough plants allows algae to gain a foot hold.

I would suggest doing regular waterchanges if you don't do that already, and also add some heavy-feeding/fast-growing water plants like watersprite for the time being. Watersprite will use a lot of the dissolved fertilizer/waste in the water and will shade the water as well due to its floating habit. It will grow rather quickly if there is an abundance of fertilizer, but it is rather easy to take out of the tank if you find it gets out of control.

Personally, I do not like adding anything chemical-related product into the water to hinder the growth of algae. This tactic does NOT solve the issue, and just sucks money out of the wallet.

a few questions:
What size is the vive/palu/?? and how much of it is water?
What animals are living in the tank - including fish please.
What kinds of plants do you already have?
And what kind/how strong are your lights? Because you said that the bloom happened during a power outage, I am rather leaning towards the "carpet algae" being cyanobacteria.

[fionafancypants]

Originally Posted by fionafancypants

Thanks so much for replying, i have only a couple regular light bulbs for light/heat and it was all ok untill i felt that the tank was getting cold at night, so i got a red 'heat' bulb and then the power outage happened, so i figure it was a combo of the two...

I have a 20 gal long, it only has the frogs, i have photos on here somewhere, so a 1/3 is like landish and the rest a pond, the rocks, gravel are pushed up against the one side and then barely are on the floor of the tank, i have only one plastic plant and its mostly just a wall hanging thing for decor but they like to swim behind and hide at times.

I notice that they like to hang out in the shallow and wade sort of, not really swimmers. but like the wet. I bot new rocks because id rather move everything out and put in fresh, honestly can i run the other stuff, i have a bridge, and the plant, thru the dishwasher?

I got the 'carpet algae' wording from the pet store but am not suprised that this is not an actual name for algae, they really dont know, as i am finding out, much about the toads to begin with...

so i guess how can i light the cage during the time i like to gaze apon the frogs, and then how can i keep the algae down. it seems to be that there was no problem for about a month then i got the red light, then i got the power outage, i no longer keep the red light on, i have a heat emitter if i need it but it seems to be too strong for what i need and may get something later down the road, i like to keep them over 60 at night and i have a cold house.

Sorry for rambling and thanks for the help, i really like these guys and hope to help them have a happy life.

Ill check out your floating plant, should be able to get at pet store?

hmm, just typed a bunch and lost it DAMN, so i only have firebelly toads, its a greenish scum on the rocks. i have one pothos plant in a pot, i belive, one plastic one,

IS there a light sourse that will NOT promote algae and can be on when im home, i like to look at them, when here, but at work i can leave it to the natural light, that we dont have much of as it is...

thanks for the help..

[beckdg]

1) does your pothos' roots enter the water area? if so it's probably depleting your source of nitrogen in the water. you can get nitrates in a bottle at your local fish store. seachem is a good brand.
2) are you replacing all of your water at a time? if so it's probably depleting your source of nitrogen in the water.
3) what is your lighting schedule (including the night light). if light is on in the tank too long you are sure to get algae. too long can vary from over 6 hrs to over 16 hrs a day depending on your setup. in most palus i'd suggest 12 hrs or less total. this may mean adjusting when your lights come on all the way up to getting a timer to control them. many planted tank keepers adjust their lighting schedule so that they can enjoy their tanks when they're home. it doesn't matter what time of day or night light is accessible yet rather how long they're on.
4) is your water moving or aerated? if not you will want to add a pump, filter or an air stone.
5) are your lights regular incandescents? if so you will want to replace at least one of them to provide good light usable by your plant. algae can use a much wider array of lighting than most plants. for that reason providing light that's not beneficial to your plant will help algae out compete your plant for nutrients. i suggest ge daylight cfl screw ins from walmart to replace any incandescents you don't need for heat.
6) DO NOT KEEP REPLACING THINGS OR RUN ANYTHING THROUGH THE DISHWASHER. sorry for yelling but this is essential for keeping algae at bay and keeping your setup healthy.
7) a lamp dimmer cord or a temp controller would be your best bet for keeping your temps up without scorching anything. i'm using a repti-therm 500 currently and i don't have any issues with it. there are better one's out there but that one works just fine for a single tank. either the dimmer or the controller can be used with either your heat mat or your emitter or both if necessary. the dimmer will give a more natural swing in temps as your house heats and cools throughout the day.
8) for the plant... if necessary i'd purchase it from a member on a fish forum. it would have to be shipped but you'll get a better variety to choose from, better specimens, probably no extra hitchhikers like algae, snails, etc. and a better price usually. plus it'll save you from hunting something down... and you can ask them what's best for your setup. i have had good experiences with aquariacentral.com but there are others. be sure to ask them if they can dip them with potassium permangenate to eliminate hitchhikers for ya.
9) try to keep thing semi stable. if you are using different water to refill all the time the plant will have to constantly adjust. algae can withstand fluctuations like nobody's business. if your temperature is fluctuating bad it's the same case. if you're constantly replacing things... same deal.
10) the pictures posted... is that what it looks like? if not you are and will be getting bad advice in one way or another. at that point i implore you to go to the link i posted and click on the links i posted under algae finders. find the algae or algaes that look like yours and report back to us your findings. better even would to be to post a pic of the problem. i'm sure between dazzle and i we could pin it down.
11) if that is your algae take an old toothbrush and swirl it around gently to try to get the algae (bacteria) stuck on the bristles. once you do that you should be able to remove quite a bit of it manually. the less there is the less there is breeding in your tank.
12) i think that may be it... any more questions don't hesitate... we would like a pic of your setup... and the problem algae too... we live off of pics around here!

good luck... this is not going to be an overnight cure in most cases... cyano is a mother of a problem to have. by all means keep us posted on what you try and how it works out. there are more severe treatments and if necessary we can somewhat walk you through them.

also... this might help... good places to buy... please add to it!