my 2nd mixed viv!!! Doing great!!!

[boabab95]

Also I just think that in the wild the long tails would have a crap load of things trying to eat them and instinct tells them to stay away....

It's not that they can't be together, it's the Size:# of species ratio that's not safe. What I mean is, if you had a 150 gallon tank, then I wouldn't be on the subject.

[Epiphile]

I find it hard to believe that a grass lizard would need to worry about a tree frog or have any defense mechanisms against that type of predation, but I've never been to their native range, so I guess I can't say.

Regardless, I think that overstocking is a definite issue in this case. Just because you can't see any obvious signs of stress or aggression (past the inhabitants trying to eat one another, of course), it doesn't mean that they're not present.

[boabab95]

I find it hard to believe that a grass lizard would need to worry about a tree frog or have any defense mechanisms against that type of predation, but I've never been to their native range, so I guess I can't say.

I agree, they most likely woud never encounter a tree frog...

[Grimm]

Originally Posted by roxxygroup1

I've even seen the fbts standing on top of chuck many times and I've also seen my male retf standing on chucks head trying to get to a cricket that was hiding on the ledge at the top of the backround.... its actualy really cool watching how they hang out together and are good lil friends lol

I dont think they are friends...

But I do think you have proven that WTFs have higher tolerance levels compared to woman, when an unwanted creature is trying to mount them

[roxxygroup1]

Oh I see what your saying... they seem to be doing quite well since I gave the long tails back there hiding place and none of my herbs seem stressed and seem to be happy with the space they all share... hopefuly it continues to work out for me because I love my mixed viv its kewl to watch... but I do see the point your makeing I just hope it works ok for me because I. Don't think my future inlaws will be happy if I were to get out the old 18x18x18 and build another viv just for chuck lol they would prob not like that due to the extra space it would take up not to mention the cost factor it would cost to build another viv lol... although I kinda was thinking about makeing that one into a desert scene to keep a pair of some type of gekos but I never did anything that was a desert climate I've only done tropical... so I'm not so sure what's involved with desert herbs

[roxxygroup1]

Grimm hahahahaha true lol

[roxxygroup1]

Hey its good hearing everyones advice and opinions... the good and the bad... I'm always up for what others kno and all... aside from the herbs in my viv.. I'm quite happy with how the viv turned out as fars as landscape and all

[Greg H.]

Originally Posted by boabab95

Not that I'm completely against mixed tanks, but I do think theat's a little small for that number of herps.

I just found this thread this morning - but I have to agree. To many animals for the size of tank - - add in the fact that there is very little vertical space for the RETF's to really move around - currently they are just going to crawl from one plant to another - they may as well be on the ground.

[roxxygroup1]

oh a lil off topic but how do you change what it says under your screen name on here??? i have been trying to figure that out forever lol

[froggsong]

Ok, first, because it bugs me, the term is not herBs, it is herPs, with a P, herps. Like herpes without the extra E, lol...

IMO, and I have been keeping mixed tanks for a long time, your tank is FAR too small for the species that you are housing and the number of them you have chosen to house. The WTF really should have a taller vive than that, and it's too big to share such a small space with the other inhabitants. The RETFs are a BAD idea to mix with anything, much less FBTs... RETFs are very sensitive, and should be kept in species only tanks, the most you should mix with them is some fish, snails, and/or slugs.

As far as the amount of foliage goes, you're doing good in that regard. You need lots of foliage in a mixed tank, and you have plenty, and alot of it sturdy enough to hold the frogs' weight.

Now, sure, you think that it's a success, even though the WTF tried to eat a lizard. Sure, you say it's because you took the hide away, and after all, it was only once, right? What happened once will happen again, but next time the lizard might not be able to escape. Are you aware that WTF EAT lizards? That small anoles are often fed to them as treats?

If it were just the WTF, the lizards, and the FBTs, while still too small, it's a little more doable, but once you added the RETFs, you became FAR overstocked. The measure of whether something is overstocked doesn't go by numbers. There's no "animal/gallon" rule. You have to factor in the size of the animal, the space in the tank it will occupy, how far it moves when it moves (since frogs jump, it's important to consider their average jumping span), how much territorial space each animal needs, etc.

When animals are forced atop one another to get to food, sure, it's kinda cute, but it's not good. You see it as a sign that the animals are friends, and I understand that, my frogs used to sit on top of one another as well, in fact my squirrel frogs preferred to sit on my golden tree frog, but they had more than enough room to get away from one another if they wanted to. It's not a sign of friendship, especially with territorial frogs like RETFs, it's just a sign of overcrowding.


I'm going to say it: you should have done your research more thoroughly before adding more animals to an already overstocked tank. It was irresponsible. You aren't going to like what I am saying, I know that. You might find it rude. I'm not being rude though, I'm just being honest. I'm not going to coddle you, I'm going to tell it like it is, and it IS overstocked. You need to set the other tank back up or sell some animals. It is YOUR responsibility to provide these animals with the space they need, regardless of what your inlaws think. You should have at least one QT tank set up at all times anyway.

I suggest, in order to save space since it is an issue, that you mount a shelf above the current tank to hold the other one and set that one up for either the WTF or the RETFs.

You said it would cost too much to build a second vive, what did you do with everything that was in the old one? Did you move it to the new enclosure?

When mixing species, you have to give them MUCH more room than you would give them in a species only tank. My mixed tank (mixed no longer as my golden passed recently of old age) is a 40g breeder tank with a topper on that more than doubles the size of the tank. The mixed tank I will be setting up shortly will be in a 28g bowfront tank, and will house two native chorus frogs, a native salamander, and my native newt. All of these animals would come into contact with one another in the wild, and all are small and non-territorial. The salamander burrows, the newt stays in the water almost exclusively, and the frogs use the whole tank, but mostly the ground and BG. This is acceptable because I have considered each animal's niche, level of toxicity, and eating habits. I have kept all of these animals for over a year, separately. I have had my newt for ~3 yrs before deciding to risk mixing her with other herps due to her toxicity level. You can't just go buy animals and toss them in and hope for the best. You have to get to know each animal first. How will you know if the RETFs become sick? Frogs rarely show stress, as it would lead to a quick death in the wild. Usually, by the time you see signs of stress, the animal is knocking on death's door. You haven't kept these animals separately, have you? Did you even QT them?

I really not trying to be negative, I just don't think you have done this responsibly, and think that pointing these things out might help you have REAL success with mixing.