46G Water Stream Bowfront Tank: Build Log with Pics.

[Nightfall]

Hmmm...one thing I didn't see mentioned was a heater for the water. Guppies are a tropical fish and need water thats around 75-78 degrees. Could be a reason for your dead fish.

[MustacheMatt]

hmm, the gauge read 74, and at the pet store the fish was listed as 72-82 degrees i believe. Does the amount of current or water movement effect the fish?

[beckdg]

guppies are slow movers that grow very large finnage which create lots of drag.

it may be very usefull to make sure there is almost no current in your tank by moving or adjusting even restricting your water flow, at least 1 almost dead spot is preferable.

a good clue if this is an issue would be if dead fish seem to have congregated around inlet from tank to pump!

heater: guppies especially fancy are usually bread not caught anymore and like i said b4 can withstand a lot. the ones i have came from my wifes uncle who does not own a heater. his tank often drops below 70F and can get quite close to 80F in summer... probably not the problem! side note his tank is 20gal and seeing to the back is impossible due to babies at all times!!!

test kit for such a small viv should not be necessary you will probably throw out most of it when you are done. testing though is essential but pet store should do it for free! make sure they give you quantitative (numbers) results and post them here if you continue to have problems for better more specific answers.

salt... softeners: i dont believe in them. most pet stores use little or no salts and dont let them sell you something you dont need. soft=low tds (total dissolved solvents) hard=high tds although salt does make water feel soft to humans it is just one more thing in the water table to monitor and actually adds to tds although most tests dont read it. most salt tests are made for saltwater tanks and cannot accurately measure a freshwater environment such as one for a guppy, making it very hard to tell what is too much. most recommended dosages are far too high and will kill most fish!!!!! moreover most people who keep high salts successfully to (fight parasites) have adjusted slowly over the course of weeks, even months to acclimate their fish. this in itself suggests danger to me.

suggestion: take a sample of your tap water and tank water (and maybe some you have left sit in suspect sand and/or soil for a couple days) to be tested if tank water is harder than tap you have to work on that. if even higher from sand/soil, it is your culprit as i've not tried this combo... no need to worry!

solutions:
1) wal-mart, home depot, and many other place sell reverse osmosis systems. some are really simple to install and some may only cost $50-$100 total initial investment but will be alot cheaper over the long run than say refilling with spring water.
2)activated carbon... lots of it!!! it is the last cartridge in a good ro (reverse osmosis) system and the part that filters out the hardest to remove items like microbial parasites. bonus you can buy it in bulk with zeolite added which absorbs ammonia... the #1 killer in new or overstocked tanks.
3)keep in mind most items sold for reptiles are by far not good for fish as they leech/precipitate harmful chemicals into the water. the reason being most of these items are assumed to be used in a simple (dry) enclosure and are only regulated to those specs assuming they will never come into contact with water. water soluble paint is extremely common on structures!
for this i would suggest hot/warm water (warmer than tank will be), maybe carbon filtering... run for a few weeks, and changed as often as possible. very important keep water level xtra high for this to prevent further leeching from untreated areas after babies are added. skipping this may add to a lot of sudden wipeouts!!!

remember it is probably not how hard, but what is making it hard that is the killer.

chlorine: there are 2 types
type 1 chlorine can be eliminated by adding an airstone to water 24hrs b4 using
type 2 chloramine cannot be eliminated as it does not precipitate and must be treated
i do not suggest trying to figure it out right now! i do suggest 1 product for this (any chlorine remover), i use top fin for ponds because it does not add anything for any other purpose and treats a lot of water per bottle (costs less)
any chlorine will kill overnight!

cycling tank: very important!!!
once you figure out your hardness issue you will have to cycle your tank. this means make ammonia somehow, let it drop to 0 then nitrites to 0 then nitrates to <20. you can do this 1 guppy at a time, or even a fishless cycle to start. any one of these can kill fish and is the prime factor in deciding how many fish can be in a tank. good part bacteria in tank takes care of that. bad part that means waiting till bacteria builds up and takes care of it. my tank is a year old and i am still adding babies... i have about 50 critters total!!!
anyway testing every few weeks is important when adding fish. most people say weekly but that just adds anticipation... not good when you have an empty looking tank or 1 very lonely looking baby.

note: most land creatures create more waiste ie:ammonia than fish. for that reason adding fish first may cause a sudden decline in population when you add your geckos or whatever... i suggest maintaining your above water kiddies at least a couple of months prior to adding fish and testing above parameters prior to even shopping. this will aid as your initial cycling also if mixing male and female add females first (1 at a time) b4 you pick a male (most are pregnant upon recieving anyway).


it might help you to google ph, kh, gh, and tank cycling to get a better understanding as i am a very slow typer trying to keep 2 toddlers at bay. i would get to the water thing (running, changing, testing vs. tap etc.) immediately though. just remember if it is not fit for the fish it may not be fit for land buddies to drink. if it is the sand it would probably be best to leech it out very well or change it!!!


good luck matt, and pls let me no if this was any help (i am typing w/1 finger here)!

[beckdg]

also matt
do not trust pet stores. they are stores, which means to stay afloat they must sell sell sell.

most people working there would much rather sell you something you dont need than find the real problem so they can get back to the relentless task of cleaning up after 100s or 1'000s of critters.

this benefits them as the more you kill the more pets/ useless solutions they can sell you... especially if you think it's your fault!

also most employees come and go due to low pay and the never ending task of cleaning animal waste leaving most people available only having knowledge of what they have at home and trying to make due.

also they will usually only buy what they can sell quickly. this leads to them not realising the amount of damage they actually do. i have seen many times people thinking they are an infinite source of knowledge because of their ability to purchase a dozen fish and keep 1 alive for 2-3 weeks.

[MustacheMatt]

i changed the water to spring water, had it tested, the pet store said it was good, got some tetras, and then woke up with more dead fish. Would fish die over night if the tank had little to no "good" bacteria? Also, is it ok to turn off the light at night, and have the tank completely dark? I think the tank is now in the cycling stage, last night there was a "bloom" and today the water has cleared. I am going to have it tested, and possibly pick up a heater, and some ammonia to try and do a fishless cycle.

[Nightfall]

Wait....you didn't have a heater in there? As the redneck mechanic would say "There's yer problem!" Tetras need water that's at least 75-80 degrees. they are a tropical fish. And water temp is not the same as air temp. Get a heater...save a fish.

[beckdg]

Robyn's Neon Tetra Page

this link should show you its not temp this robin lady knows her stuff. most of what she writes i believe is on fish in her house where she can monitor and care for them for their entire life!

once again rinse rinse rinse... very important reptile sand is sometimes (maybe always) fortified with calcium... not in a natural way

this will take hours or weeks its like leeching out tannins in wood you find yourself

[beckdg]

her high range temp refers to very short periods

other range is what we'll go by

[beckdg]

80 is really high for most any fish like a redneck would say 'cept discuss and angels i believe

[beckdg]

also neon tetra disease can kill everything and cannot be removed from a tank without total breakdown... avoiding neons, cardinals, and i believe ???bleeding hearts??? might be a good idea until you are familiar with this disease.
the only way i've found to remove it is to recognize it early and remove the host before it hits the water table as at this point it will be microscopic and too late.

also i found 1 experiment (don't remember where right now) suggesting that neons do good with a very low ph... probably way too low for your tank as it is... as low as 3.5???


guppies are cheap because they are easy to breed same as mollies and swordtails. most other cheap fish is because of lack of resilience... probably wont last long.

i'd stick to these guys or maybe a goldfish or 2 til you get everything worked out... you can always sell them back and repurchase for final restock.

still if you put fish in first or early, waste from land animals will definitely kill something!