water feature fertilizers, plants, substrate?

[beckdg]

standing water is a bad thing.
not sure about the article... doesn't sound like the greatest idea as of now.
waiting and testing isn't a bad idea but planting, testing and fertilizing is most likely a better one.

plants need food. let's assume they'll be shocked by transplanting. that could decrease or even increase uptake rates. most likely increase as they struggle to adapt and regrow... or grow new roots and leafs suitable to their new environment.

in an aquatic setting, when the plants are lacking something or struggling it triggers algae. the lack of one nutrient will already be stunting the growth/health of your plants. with algae consuming what's left of the other ferts (plant food) the plants will likely degrade faster and possibly be smothered for light.

moving water is better. it promotes all the good things that happen in a water feature/area. standing water just stagnates and rots. you'll need your water moving for several reasons. to start... good bacteria... it needs a steady supply of fresh, well oxygenated water. without the water moving you will not be giving it oxygen, circulating it's food for it to feed, etc.. let's say you have ammonia in the water to feed your bacteria. the source of the ammo is mostly of no concern. it could be from fish food, animal urates, dollar store cleaning ammonia (with no surfactants, scents, coloring, other cleaners, etc.), small amounts of human urine (if you're feeling frisky and experimental), etc.. now you'll need a way to keep a good supply of oxygen and deliver that ammonia to your bacteria. that's the job that can only be done by moving the water. movement stops and so does food delivery and oxygen introduction. the same can be said of the plants. all the fertilizers in the world will do you no good if it's all 1/2" too far away from the plant. it's like being hospitalized and bed ridden with degrading health, but the food never leaves the kitchen and you never leave your bed/room... you might just die of malnutrition/starvation.

looking at it from another angle...
when i used to do fire and water restoration water was always a factor of pretty much every job. fresh clean water of a known source was called white (clean) water. anything of unknown value is called grey water and treated as black water. for instance if that white water were to be sitting for 24 hours it is now grey. if it were to be poured into a sink we were not sure was clean... grey water. black water is water we can assume safely was contaminated. one way to make black water is to let white water sit for 3 days. at that point we could assume there is sufficient microbial growth to just label our white water black water. in other words mold and other possibly harmful bacteria are definitely growing at that point... or so we assume. so water laying around for three days gets classified the same as toilet water at that point because it has all it needs to promote healthy growth of biological contaminants that could be bad for our health... stale water and exposure to the atmosphere.

in summary...
1 food (ferts) should be available to the plants at all times
2 food (ammo) should be available to the bacteria at all times
3 food has to be delivered to both of them at all times (through water movement)
4 respiration is essential to both organisms and the proper gasses have to be delivered at all times. for plants this means oxygen and carbon dioxide. for beneficial bacteria this means oxygen.
5 if points 1-4 are not taken care of properly from the get go with proper water movement for delivery and proper food you'll be creating an environment more suitable towards other organisms that could be detrimental to the ones you want/need.

side note: a more heavily planted water section has much better chances for success for several reasons. i suggest (if you can do it) about 50% coverage with plants in your water section right off the bat for best results. a good handful of species would help too. some are better at doing different things than others and a mixture helps to keep the environment more stable than a single species can. floaters and emergent plants help to utilize co2 from the atmosphere. ground cover does just that and might cover some substrate that otherwise would form algae. broad leaf plants can provide shelter for any critters you put in there as well as possibly a soft resting place for them. there are different benefits when it comes to cleaning the water too which is a little more in depth and honestly i don't know all of that... i don't think anyone actually does completely...

due to their actual benefits, the fact that you might want to give them time to establish for their best chances and the fact that a planted area/tank (fish tank) just does better when planted somewhat densely right away i'd say put those plants in right away and do your best to keep things level and healthy. they'll have their best chances for success that way and most likely you'll have a much easier go at creating a healthy environment for them and your critters that way.

[Olivia W.]

I have a water filter in there now, so I have moving water. I have done standing water before with very bad results. I bough a few floating water plants for thins tank even before I started construction, jumped the gun if you will. Stupid, I know. I treated them for snails and then put them in a temporary container thinking that without an air pump or fertz i could keep them alive just by doing daily water changes. After like a week I started to slack with water changes and the water turned foul really quickly and my plants started to decay. Not good. I had algae too. I am never doing that again.

For the substrate I put down E C and then covered it with sand to make it look like a river bed. They are indigenous to river banks of south Vietnam. I put in a few stones and pebbles and sprinkled some brown gravel for accents. I will post pics in the palu. gallery sometime today. let me know what you think.

As for completing the water section I will do like you said, plant 50% or more, fertilize, and test to see if all is well. I will let the tank sit for just a few days though. My water is cloudy. I think its just substrate dust so I am gonna try and let it settle down first. I know its not the wood since I boiled it , then soaked it for a week and a half and did a final boil on it just to get out most of the color. With the wood I also have plenty of shady spots for my frogs to hide even without plants.

What I really wanted was water lilies for the mossies to hang out on. But those plants are just too big. Nothing under 12" long/tall and the leaves are so big. I went to the local fish store and found a few species but i think they will be huge. This sucks. I have a 29 gallon half filled with water so lilies are out of the question, maybe. It be cool though to have them hang out on the floating lily pads. ah well...

[beckdg]

you might try something more suited size wise. red root floater, maybe. might be a good substitute... if it holds their weight. check aquarium forums. put in a pm or 2 to anybody selling floaters that look to be of suitable size. frogbit might be suitable also. i think there's somebody selling those 2 over on aquariacentral as we speak.

you can also try without fertilizer at first (with exception to root tabs). i'd just keep Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Home handy in case you see issues (holes in leafs, no growth, algae, etc.). you can test the water you're using (tap water, bottled water, etc.) beforehand also to get an idea what you'd need. i recommend the red sea fresh lab deluxe as a good starting point. a couple of the tests take a bit longer than the api master test kit but the price is comparable and you get a much better range of tests for your money. knowing is half the battle, lol.

i have dwarf lillies. i think they'd even get a bit big... and wouldn't hold the frogs up. they're also not too good with light... they like it DARK (like in a dark closet with a towel blocking light from coming in under the door almost) ime. just an fyi in case you came across them and thought "well this might work". they are also sold under the name tiger lotus or red tiger lotus. basically adding any light to them (for the most part) makes them very nutrient demanding or dead and like i said... i doubt they could keep a wooden nickel floating for 24 hours, lol.

if you choose to go with all anubias sp. you might not need to fertilize at all and you may actually inherit your resting spots you're looking for. they're very undemanding, adjust to most water params and lighting conditions (except too much light might be cause for algae for submersed leafs), and can emerse and be grown terrestrially. their leafs are very sturdy also.

[Olivia W.]

I have had those before. I tried to attach it to wood and worked pretty well. I may actually use those plants (anubias) again. I have a fair amount of wood to work with and it will look good with moss.

[beckdg]

i agree. i've got bartieri and nana growing in my fish tank.

[Olivia W.]

nice. Payday is only 5 days away ;-)