Third time's the charm

[mh32]

Hey everyone I'm back. It's been a few months, but I'm on a new project. I manage a swimming pool so this is my super busy time.

Well this will be my third and probably final project for at least a while. This new hobby of my drives my wife nuts. I do get a little messy I guess.

Anyway, for my grand finale I'm doing a 50 gal laid on its end so the dimensions will be 48" high by 12.5" deep by 21" wide. This is really the only way I can set this tank up because when I bought the tank (for only $10 by the way) it was already drilled on the back, then two days after I got it the front cracked. So I turned it so the drilled hole is at the bottom on the front and the crack is on the back and will be covered with GS. Hope that makes sense. I will build a case so you can't see the hole in the front.

Now setting the tank up like this I though of a few questions.

1. If I do a sump outside the tank what is my best option for water return? I am willing and able to drill if I need. I'm leaning towards a similar setup to the on blackjungle and just drilling a hole big enough for a 1/2 inch line and doing a similar drip system.

2. With this setup obviously the door will be on the side and the top is completely closed, what are my options for air circulation. Again I'm willing to drill if I need to I would just need to know the ideal location.

3. If I want to add some frogs down the road is the setup on blackjungle ideal with there being no land on the bottom. To me it looks great and seems there would be less maintenance with just water and gravel at the bottom with no substrate to worry about.

I've been fairly impatient with my first two and want to really take my time on this one and make it real nice. So if you have any advice for any or all of my questions that would be great.

[froggsong]

Depending on the humidity you need, having some screen in the door actually works better for ventilation than a screen top. I found when I had my frogs ten gallon on end that way, that even though the entire door was screen (I used the screen top I had for it when it was horizontal, I bent the bottom edge of the screen frame so that I could slid it up and down), I had much better humidity levels, as well as better temps, because the moisture and heat weren't rising out of the top.

As for not having a substrate, I'll have to take a look at the setup you are talking about. In my experience with the frogs I have, they are arboreal during the day but stay on the land at night when they hunt. Depending on what types of frogs you get, you'll need some land in order to feed them, I would think. You could make the landings that I made in my frog/toad tank, my frogs seem to love them. They are just made with GS and covered in peat moss, so there is no substrate to worry about with them unless you carve them out to add a plant (in which case any waste that lands there will just be fertilizer).

Also, a big point, be very careful if you are laying the GS down directly on the glass that it does not expand the crack that is already there. It will go through the tiniest cracks, so if you weren't planning to cover the surface in silicone first, at least cover that part. You don't want to let it cure and then when you look have the back entirely broken. I'm sure you know that already, I just wanted to make sure it was something you has thought about!

I really really want to do a sump for my CWD tank... I wonder if there is any way to do it without drilling?

[Green Ghost]

Originally Posted by mh32

...1. If I do a sump outside the tank what is my best option for water return? I am willing and able to drill if I need. I'm leaning towards a similar setup to the on blackjungle and just drilling a hole big enough for a 1/2 inch line and doing a similar drip system.

2. With this setup obviously the door will be on the side and the top is completely closed, what are my options for air circulation. Again I'm willing to drill if I need to I would just need to know the ideal location.

3. If I want to add some frogs down the road is the setup on blackjungle ideal with there being no land on the bottom. To me it looks great and seems there would be less maintenance with just water and gravel at the bottom with no substrate to worry about. ...

1: By now everyone already knows I favor drilled tanks, driven by sumps so I'd say definetly drill. Everything gets automated from the sump and there's very little maintenance afterwards. Too bad you didn't have a spare 48" tank because the cracked one could be used as your sump. For the water return question did you mean the type of pump you want in the sump? Or the water feature itself?

2: If you were thinking of drilling the end of the tank (your top) to ventilate (did you want to put fans on the holes?) then maybe leaving the top intact and drilling at the side front (your back wall at the top) might give you better ventilation and the vent hole(s) could come through and potentially be camouflaged by the GS. If you do put a sump in then automatic misting gets a lot easier and you can plan where to drill for that also. (or run the misting lines through the GS backing. Problem with a tank on it's end is that the footprint of the tank (and also the top) are pretty small so putting misting tubes or fans on the top will just allow even less light to get in the viv. Also I'm not sure about getting light down into the tank. Definitely see about Metal Halide fixtures is my two cents.

3: No substrate really depends on how you can care for your viv. Both my vivs (the two "showtanks" I have in my dinning room) don't have typical substrate. Basically I have sand and gravel in the bottom. Fish in the bottom and frogs on top. For example it could be a good setup for mossy frogs or even FBTs. What type of frogs did you have in mind?

One last thing.... I would make sure the tank is sealed before going on, since the front got cracked. You should have at least 1/4" thick glass on there so even though it's cracked it may still be able to take any stress. IMHO definitely seal with silicone before anything. I'd be very careful leak testing because a cracked tank can burst, especially one that size. An option to consider would be putting in another pane of glass (on the inside) in front of the cracked piece.

[mh32]

That's a good idea to put some glass over the the crack I think I'll do that.

Now as far as the water return goes I was wondering about the water feature. It looks like the one on blackjungle just has a bunch of driplines that run constantly. If I understand the setup correctly that should eliminate a lot of the need for misting. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Now for air circulation I do have some old little computer fans just wondering where I would put them. Should I be circulating the air in the tank or have a supply of fresh air and an exhaust.

I was considering FBT's but was wondering if they need deeper water to swim or would just an inch or two be ok.

Thanks for the input so far. I will be taking photos along the way and posting my progress.

[Green Ghost]

Dripping water into the viv whether it's from a water line or from a waterfall feature basically serves the same purpose. But misting and water dripping from something are different ways of humidifying. Misting is way faster. Tiny droplets are forced into the airspace of the viv instead of the water itself slowly evaporating.

Misting on it's own raises the humidity and cools the tank off slightly. If you used the fans to circulate air only (no fresh air) while misting, you would cool the tank even more. So these two elements working in tandem can be used to control your climate. If you're able to also have some opening to regulate a fresh air intake, that would give you even more control over the climate in the viv. So I would say "both" to answer your question. Both types are definitely desireable. Put both in if you can manage it. If can only choose one or the other and you're asking which should you choose between, then I'd recommend recirculating (no fresh air). As for placing the fans Waterkeeper and I were talking about that a little while back..... let me see if I can find the thread for you......

I can't speak for all FBTs but mine really like shallow water. They are at home in the water and actually will go dive down to the bottom and hide there awhile if startled suddenly. So in the wild these toads live in deeper ponds. Basically up to you.

[mh32]

Thanks for the response. I'm realizing how much I don't know.

So I always thought misting was for watering the plants, but its main purpose is to regulate humidity? So would having both dripline and misting system be overkill? What is an ideal humidity?

[Green Ghost]

For sure misting will also provide a water source for the plants in the viv. Usually misters run on a timer. So depends how frequently it's set to come on. If it stays on longer more water goes into the viv.

I think it's also fair to mention that not all misters are created equal. Some nozzles provide a much finer mist than others, obviously they cost more. So the finer the mist then the longer it stays in the air. When the misting nozzles don't produce such a fine mist, they'll put more water into the viv, so yeah it can act like a sprinkler, watering the plants.

I guess no one can tell you both dripline and a misting system in your viv is wrong. You could potentially put both in but choose how and when you use each of them. Doesn't mean you'd have to use both at the same time, or all the time for that fact.

Ideal humidity for RETFs ranges between 70% - 85% daytime and falls a little at night. Ideal humidity for a desert reptile would probably be much less. Depends what you want to put in there. For a FBT maybe around 65% but they will tend to stay very close to, if not right in, the water. So a misting system may not really be so necessary for these particular frogs but might still be necessary depending on the live plants you want to put in with them.

Sorry if this is confusing (sounds confusing to me and I'm writing it )

Anyways here's that link I wanted to show you about fans in the viv.

Vivarium Circulation 101?

[mh32]

Well I'm pretty much finished so I'll show you a little bit of the progression.

I turned the tank on end and put the drain in front because that red line there is a crack, didn't think it would look to good on the front. The drain is in front because the tank was drilled when I got it. A crack on one side and a hole on the other didn't leave me with too many options. I put silicone on the crack and then coverd it with a peice of glass (probably stonger than the origional just ugly) and placed my wood peices and planter cups and 1/4 inch hose for a drip line.


I then covered the back and side with great stuff as you can see I used two different kinds I guess. Both seemed to work just fine.


This is a small water feature that flows maybe a gallon an hour. You can see the false bottom made of eggcrate covered with window screen the bottom will just be gravel and water so probably the false bottom on that side is a little overkill. On the right side will be a small amout of land area where I will use sphagnum mosss.

I then covered all the GS with GE II brown silicone and while wet applied coco bedding/ peat moss. I did find it is much easier to spread the silicone with a fat round painbrush that I have used several times (all the bristles are one big glob of silicone but it works well) I forgot to take a photo of this part sorry.

I have it about 90% planted now and will be taking photos of the almost finished product tonight. To late now to make any changes but let me know what you think so far.

[mh32]

Well I got some photos taken. Here they are let me know what you think.

Here is the full view. I was able to build a stand and case that covered the drain in the front I think it turned out ok.


These are some of the plants I have. I really want to fill this puppy with plants let me know if you have any ideas.


looking down from the top


This is the water feature I was talking about it maybe drips a gallon an hour but I think it looks nice.

[onefstsnake]

Looks great to me!